dune

The irony of all this is that those on the Left that are fighting for PR are opening the door to the hardline right.:smt045 You couldn't make it up. So you could say that a Vote for the Liberals is not only a vote for Gordon Brown but looking ahead it's a vote for the BNP.:smt073

Your numbers are way of the mark of what would happen in reality. Under PR the house would be reduced to about 500 mps. You've given the Tories about 50% and Labour 50% under the cuurent numbers which is clearly nonsense. The actual figure would be more like 30% each which in a 500 seat house would equate to roughly 150 MPs each with 251 MP's needed for a slim majority in a coalition. The Liberals based on past precedents may get 20% (a bit more for them maybe and a bit less for Labour) and the Greens would grow and possibly get 5%+. This would mean that the Left coalition would hardly be made up of just Labour MP's, in fact i'd say the Liberals would be the largest party closely followed by Labour with about 25 Green MPs. So to sum up you'd have a coalition that could be 130 Liberals, 120 Labour and 25 Greens. However when the country wanted change in what would effectively be a two party system (Right V Left) You'd have the Conservatives polling say 35%, UKIP (which will grow rapidly to fill a void especially given the fact that a vote for them at national level will no longer be a wasted vote) polling 15% and the Unionists acting like the Greens do in the Left wing coalition adding another 5%. So to sum up you'd have a coalition that could be 175 Tories, 75 UKIP, 25 Unionists (Actually probably less unionists but you get the drift). So of these coalitions the Left will have about over 50% that is hardline Left (and i put the liberals in this bracket although that can be debated) and the right will have about 35% that is hardline Right. To suggest that such circumstances wouldn't herald the end of centre ground governments is flying in the face of common sense.

Alex Salmond has said he won't join the Conservatives or Labour, Sinn Fein won't either not least because the Unionists would (wouldn't want those IRA scum ****s anyway). Plaid is a possibility.

Because of the fact that coalitions would need to exist, and for coalitions to work there needs to be concessions to the minority elements of the coalition. I've already outlined that natural left/right split i.e Lab-Lib-Green versus Con-UKIP-Unionist, so it's obvious that under these scenarios the Liberals and Greens would use their minority influence (although I accept that Labour could soon be the minority here) to push their more radical leftwing ideologies and win concessions, equally UKIP and the Unionists would demand a more hardline stance to the right. This is why centre ground politics would be a thing of the past.

Just found this snazzy little site courtesy of The Times and you can see how Ladbrokes and Finktank think it'll go in your constituency. http://generalelection2010.timesonline.co.uk/#/Predictions

I'd like to think not and that by now most people have looked past this gimic and will instead focus on policies and whether they want a majority government or a hung parliament. I think the Liberals will slip a bit regardless of performance as the penny drops that this election isn't a beauty contest, but is about deciding how best to get this country out of the mess it's in economically.

Who's lending billions to Greece? Who'll lend billions to Portugal further down the line? who'll lend billions to Spain if they too ask for help? Greece have been given "junk" credit status which means that they've been assessed as being likely to default on paying back the money. Now extrapolate these defaults to potentially include Portugal and Spain further down the line and being in the Euro isn't going to be fun for the countries you've mentioned.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3463346/brown-has-the-comprehensive-spending-review-postponed.thtml

Greece's credit rating has today been downgraded to "junk" status, and portugal have also been downgraded to "A-" status. Spain is also vulnerable. Thank god we're not tied in with the this toxic currency. http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/1602986/afternoon-markets-ftse-falls-greek-bonds-rated-junk

The public sector needs sorting out and made efficient like the private sector. There are massive savings to be made by getting rid of mountains of bureaucracy. Oh and i've got PPP private healthcare so i won't be worried about queue's. ;-)

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/170683/General-Election-2010-Hung-Parliament-will-put-economy-in-danger-warns-Ken-Clarke

If the Tories don't get a majority and become the nasty party that makes savage cuts it won't be long before we end up like Greece.

Being a right winger (we have a sense of humour) i can see the funny side you ****s.

It makes me cringe and i want the Tories to win. That non policy is not their achiles heel though, the inheritance tax break for the super rich is.

Murphy at 11/2 looks like a good bet. He was cueing well against Ding.

When does the davis match start, i've got it on channel 301 and there's only allen and dott on.:confused:

And yet again you've ignored the subject of the thread and instead resulted to insults. Insult me by PM if you want, but what benefit does this nonsense bring to the debate. You've said the same thing countless times already so everyone knows your view. It's boring now though and is making you look daft when you're clearly not.

I can't argue against that, it's not fair, but what i'm doing is saying how I think PR would work and if you think hardline politics would be a good thing then fine. But bare in mind that it'd be hardline for both sides. If you can accept this and and agree not to complain when a hardline coalition not to your leaning is in power then fine, but ask yourself this - will everyone else be so understanding?

Every other post from VFTT is an insult or sarcasm. Tell me why i'm wrong by all means - that is what debate is about.

Depending on the structure of a PR system focus groups may get the odd MP in, but essebtially the coalitions will be made up on the basis of left and right. The nationalists are the exception, but the Union is dieing anyway thanks to devolution and in a few years time Scotland will no longer be represented at westminster.

You're a one trick pony VFTT. You're only capable of insults or sarcasm or acting like a silly kid. Debate the point and stop acting like an idiot.

To put it another way the current choice is between centre right and centre left, but under PR the choice will be between hardline right and hardline left. So you Liberals had better not start moaning WHEN a hardline right coalition is in power because you'll have made the bed so you'll have to lie in it.

I couldn't care less what happens on the continent. The fact is that in this country the left would be a Lib-Lab-possible green alliance and the right would be a Con-UKIP-Unionist alliance. Such alliances would take us away from centre ground politics and would lead to tensions. How you can deny such a rational arguement that is applicable to our country, not some other country that where PR may work alright, is beyond me.

Me. Tell me why i'm wrong.

Ooops.