UpweySaint

31 for a player who looks after himself isn’t necessarily an issue. Hard to know his current level with his lack of consistent game time of late. It may indicate he’s gone to shit or it might just be he’s not pushed his way into starting 11s. My guess is he would look very good in a championship side under the right manager. There is a bit of sentiment in there but it’s not exactly jobs for the boys. Taking his name out of the equation if you told me Jander and Charles would leave I wouldn’t be too gutted about signing a 31 year old centre mid with a lot of prem experience, an eye for a pass and the sort of dead ball delivery many of ours would potentially thrive on. We have been stung before ‘getting the band back together’ but some of the bashing he gets on here feels OTT. I do wonder if he suffers somewhat by association- he was the captain during some shite seasons. Quite how much of that he should be accountable for is up for debate but it certainly seems to impact some views on him.

He was consistently one of our better players in the prem and made international appearances. Let’s not be revisionist - his legs haven’t suddenly gone.

Truly I understand some of the strong opinions on here but I’m still wanting to hear more from the club as I don’t think the whole thing is as binary as it’s being made out. I had a long drive for work today and caught up with the Guardian Football Weekly and the Euro Leagues. A couple of salient points came up. Cheating happens a lot in football. If you dive to win a penalty and don’t get caught during the game the result doesn’t get rescinded. Another example was given of sneaking a look at tactical instructions handed onto the pitch during a game in an attempt to gain a tactical advantage. Teams don’t get kicked out of competitions. Panelists (some - not all) did speculate that this was something much more tangible than say in game chicanery or financial clever bollocks that the EFL could be seen to come down hard on for once. Spying on training is also fairly common place in German football and is largely shrugged off. Klopp once instructed Terzic to spy on Madrid ahead of a champions league game for example. Nagelsman responded to spying with a “so what? Nothing to hide”. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to wonder what Tonda’s understanding of the rules and norms were at the point he directed analysts to spy. I’m not condoning what we have done and we should have been punished but I do think some of the hand wringing and grand standing has been OTT. We tried to gain a sporting advantage and broke a rule (knowingly or not) and we’re bang to rights but let’s not pretend this is something much more heinous and repugnant. There are plenty of things that would make me genuinely ashamed of my football club - a quick sideways glance at Marseille - but watching another team train doesn’t evoke the same level of feeling for me as it evidently does for others. Others, who I should add, are entitled to their opinions and I respect their strength of feeling.

It is amazing just how different the response to the two has been. The Bielsa stuff was largely played as an idiosyncrasy of a football obsessive and most people moved on very quickly. The rules have changed and we’re guilty but some of the vilification from outside and in is OTT in my opinion. Is our offence worse than clubs trying to break/circumvent financial rules over multiple years? I would argue the images of Will Salt with his phone are easier to stoke flames than a balance sheet or an episode on a football finance podcast.

Point well made. It all feels very raw right now but we still don’t truly know who did what and why. We also don’t know what individual punishments may look like. I expect Tonda will have to go one way or another. Even if it’s a genuine error on his part I think a ban is likely which would potentially make his position untenable even IF the club wanted him to stay. Clubs have done worse and got their act together again.

Has Taylor Harwood-Bellis said nasty things to you? You could be entitled to compensation. We’ve won thousands for whinging prats just like you … Call Gibson and Bottler now on 0800 nobody gives a fuck …

That’s my feeling really. It would be a brave move from the EFL - right or wrong.

The Guardian inevitably has a left wing hue but the panelists are generally pulled from a range of outlets and tend to be fairly balanced - and pretty funny. The panel do talk about the Leeds precedent, the possible sanctions and draw comparisons to other ‘cheating’ including financial rule breaking which has led to fines and/or small points deductions. IMO the most likely outcome is a suspended points deduction and a fine. Kicking us out of the play offs feels significant and we would clearly contest it - I don’t think the EFL can risk the play off final having a giant asterix next to it and promotion being subject to potential legal wrangling.

I read Ruskies as Simon Rusk related at quick glance and was convinced you were outing him as a master spy!

Amazing to actually have a collection on names we can actually make a good case for. For me it has to be Leo. He’s one of my favourite Saints to watch since Tadic.

Charles if we’re talking standalone goal for sure. Honourable mention to the much maligned (often not unfairly) Manning who has hit some quality free kicks this season. The FA Cup goals all felt pretty special too. Azaz was a great strike but Stewart against Arsenal felt good too!

Shit. A good hit. All on us now.

Jelert is a tricky one. Plenty of pedigree, can play both sides, suits a side likely to dominate the ball but the major flaw is the lack of physicality. I don’t mind that type of risk on a loan. Quarshie I’m okay with. As you say cheap - relatively speaking - and I think he has potential. Bree is odd. He had been so so for us in the past and I think most were fairly ambivalent about him staying or going - myself included. He’s looked top since he came back but I don’t think that was a given. Baz. Yeah clusterfuck. Happy to eat humble pie as I thought he could kick on. Relying on him was a mistake. Peretz was likely not available/realistic in the summer but you have to think there were other options.

Downs looks ridiculous in hindsight. At the time I felt the fee was too much but in principle a physical striker with some pace who has scored goals in Bundesliga 2 and had already been called up by a national side didn’t seem like a stupid move - Ageymang at Derby was clearly the better bet. But yeah clearly Downs goes down as a big miss - it happens. His confidence must be rock bottom. Hopefully somebody in Germany has seen enough in his last spell to fancy taking a punt on potential and we can recoup a fee.

Take the day off lad.