Barry Sanchez

I would have taken that yes, came into the war too late to have any real effect, thank Christ.

One of the reasons the Russians pulled so far back was the vastness, exactly that, there was nothing for them to defend or hold onto but flat pasture land, what slowed the German advance was logistics and crap roads.

Yes I agree hence the horses for courses, medium tank to medium tank, T34 or Panther?

It was and again true but a fully working Tiger is a far better tank but yes for what it was supposed to do and it did do the T34 was brilliant, its seen now by the Russians as the best tank ever, its not and was not then it was horses for courses.

Stalin slaughtered his own the same as Hitler did, both in War and in Peace. Numbers and Winter saved Russia not their tech.

Thats all true but they certainly these people were not quoting that at the start, (once when they had seen it in action yes of course) at the end when production was far higher and they were facing many more, of course a formidable tank, when the Russians learned that a tank is not a horse they were immense in pushing the Germans back. As machines go the Tiger moreso the mark II would have nailed this to a post but it was an expensive tank to build.

No its not the undercarraige system is very important, the Christie system was a very very good system. Not at the start of the invasion it did not, why would it? The Germans advance were surprised they had no real resistance at all, hence they made so much distance so quickly.

A massive component of the tank, it was rejected by the Americans but sold to the Russians, the T34 is a legend tank, not as good as they say, a symbol of resistance.

What is your point then Pap? What are you saying, that Russia would eventually attack Germany at some point if Germany did not before? Are you Dan Snow?

No I'm saying it would have happened eventually, I am also saying Pap your thoughts (others) on that Russia was planning at that time to attack Germany is crap, I'm saying its absolute crap my mate as there is no evidence to support it. You have failed to answer any questions put before you on this. Stalin moved all of his factories East and produced on an unbelievable scale by the end of the war, at the start on the invasion they had little to no advance war machinery. Where were the advance bases of the Russian Tanks Forces, Air Force and Armies?

We can all agree on that Pap and that was covered the last page or so, on tanks do I really need to answer that?

"I think it likely they were planning to strike against Germany in an offensive war," You wrote and I asked with what? What would they attack the Germans with at that time?

Pap I can do so, you came out and stated a post concerning the T34, I dont and have not doubted it capalilities (American tank anyway look that up as well) but the fact of how could they attack and advance through German lines when in 1941 they only represented 10% approx of the Russian Forces tanks. Pap I dont need to quote anything, do a little research before you post, or ask Charlie if what I have posted is incorrect? http://operationbarbarossa.com/p1_comparison.php Here is a copy and paste, note the Russians vastly outnumbered the Germans but they had old equipment.

This is Papesque this paranoia on here, I am not Dune at all, I may post like him whatever but I am not, he posts on the ugly now and I am sure people could ask him if he is Barry Sanchez.

No you are quoting what others have written.

You do know only approx 10% of T34's were bulit at the start? You also know due to the fast nature of the invasion Stalin pulled all the factories to the Urals? He built railways on an undertaking never before seen, this was not an advance it was a defensive retreat Pap, oh stop using wikipedia verbatim, it makes you seem as if you do not know the subject.

Pap the German military pushed them so far back they really could no go any further, where were the tanks produced? I ask again, this is key to your argument and stance, the T34 was made and used in the repulsion of German forces many miles to the East and there is a reason for that.

Russian tanks at the start of the operation were no match for the Germans, only at the end Pap, there is no evidence so until I see any the Russians were simply unprepared.

What weaponary were they building before the invasion and where ere they building it?

There can be reasons to be fair, I had to leave early once due to train connections and the like at a game (Plymouth home years ago 0-1 I think), a couple of guys tutted and they were very quickly told that I did not have the luxury of getting 10 miles home but 250 miles up the road, they blushed after the 2nd foxtrot oscar, but in the main yes its annoying, stay or leave, nothing inbetween.

It will be a riot come Christmas morn around your gaff.......................

What its all about.

I dont have a kindle fire but hear they are very good indeed.

People who wear anything christmassy, I love Christmas but these are seriously challenged people, elf hats, Father Christmas outfits, antlers, in fact the whole sheebang, ban the lot of it.

What are you going to open on the big day? Surprise or have you told someone what you want?