WhitmonSaint Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Hi all, i'm wondering if any one can help me or point me in the right direction please. I'm in the process of working on a new website project - dedicated to our great club - which promises to add to our already fantastic online community. In order to achieve this i'm looking for any websites and photographers (I know there are some very good photographers on this forum) who have high quality up to date imagery of the Saints first team in action. Full credit would be shown on every image to whoever took it (with a link to their website - if they have one) and if they're not willing to part with them for free, the project does have a small budget which may be able to afford to pay for some. I have checked the official Saints FC Pics website but it's quite frankly terrible and doesn't offer the option to buy them digitally - only framed. The Echo isn't much help either, they do have a section for buying pictures - but only up to the 90's and they don't offer digital purchases either! Any help that anybody can give towards this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time! Message to Admins: This website project is going to be promoting the Saints Web Forum in a prominent position on each page of the site. Can you put me in touch with someone who can provide a hi-res copy of the SWF logo please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 You need to have a End User Agreement from Football Dataco to reproduce pictures of first team action on your own website. Image rights to all games are held by the League who issue licences through Football Dataco to publications and websites to publish images. Even freelance photographers who shoot football can't publish photos in their own portfolios on their own websites, if they do not have a licence to do so. http://www.football-dataco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitmonSaint Posted 29 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Ouch! The agreement isn't cheap either. I must admit I wasn't aware that you needed this, I merely thought you had to make sure you credited the site/photographer it came from. So, that technically means that any site that copies an image of first team action from another website has no right to do so. Where is the line drawn though? There are countless websites out there with football pics on them and they obviously don't have this Dataco agreement. As a graphic designer, if I was to take an image, recreate/modify it in to a completely new image, i'm ok to publish that aren't I? Because that's my own work, and there would be none of the original image in it? Thanks for your input Minty. Appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 As a graphic designer, if I was to take an image, recreate/modify it in to a completely new image, i'm ok to publish that aren't I? Because that's my own work, and there would be none of the original image in it? If there was none of the original in it, then why start off with the original image? Its like sampling in music. You can chop, cut and mix it how you want, but you still used the sample and have to "pay the man!, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Ouch! The agreement isn't cheap either. I must admit I wasn't aware that you needed this, I merely thought you had to make sure you credited the site/photographer it came from. The copyright of any photo taken is automatically held by the photographer and under 'normal' circumstances, you would need their permission, or a licence from them (possibly for payment) to then use their image. Football grounds are private property therefore anyone entering them does so according to conditions of entry, just like fans do when purchasing a ticket. But for the media, their conditions of entry are governed by Access agreements. They are only granted to bona-fide media organisations who pay a hefty sum to do so, and their conditions then also mean that any photos or video taken whilst inside is then only released to others who possess the aforementioned End User Agreement, which also costs lots of money. In short - it's all about money. So, that technically means that any site that copies an image of first team action from another website has no right to do so. Where is the line drawn though? There are countless websites out there with football pics on them and they obviously don't have this Dataco agreement. Correct, just like the big fixtures argument that kicked up a few years ago when Dataco began tightening up on websites with fixtures displayed and threatening legal action. Any site or publication with an image could face the same. An occasional picture on a fansite is unlikely to be noticed, but the more pictures and teh more prominant the website, the quicker they'll call knocking. As a graphic designer, if I was to take an image, recreate/modify it in to a completely new image, i'm ok to publish that aren't I? Because that's my own work, and there would be none of the original image in it? As Ponty says, anything that contains an element of any other original artwork or photo that wasn't your own, would leave you liable to copyright infringements. If your work is so completely different you *might* get away with it, but it's unlikely because your work would still be based upon someone elses, and therefore they would have grounds to claim under copyright law. Thanks for your input Minty. Appreciated. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 As Ponty says, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Oops, sorry. I shoulda known he wouldn't have a clue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypie Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 As a graphic designer, if I was to take an image, recreate/modify it in to a completely new image, i'm ok to publish that aren't I? Because that's my own work, and there would be none of the original image in it? With respect, as a graphic desinger / writer, shouldnt you be aware of basic copyright? I am a very amateur photographer and even I know I cant use others photos without licence even if its to agree that there is no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 (edited) WhitmonSaint, if I was you I would contact the club, there will be plenty of pics you could use, it will just be up to the club if they want to help or not. if you are willing to pay then I'm guessing they might give you the contact for their photographer. At the end of the day it's their business you will be promoting so they should help, depends how busy they are tho. Or if you're got decent cash you will find pics on http://www.gettyimages.co.uk Edited 29 January, 2010 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 Oops, sorry. I shoulda known he wouldn't have a clue... I wonder if "Arseholes" is on the swear-filter? Oh, no it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 WhitmonSaint, if I was you I would contact the club, there will be plenty of pics you could use, it will just be up to the club if they want to help or not. if you are willing to pay then I'm guessing they might give you the contact for their photographer. At the end of the day it's their business you will be promoting so they should help, depends how busy they are tho. Or if you're got decent cash you will find pics on http://www.gettyimages.co.uk Sorry, not possible. Even if you purchase a copy of an image from Getty you still can't reproduce it without an End User Agreement. All photos taken at Premier League or Football League games (and any other of the main football competitions in this country) are governed by Football Dataco licensing restrictions and if you ever buy a photo from Getty or Allsport or Empics or any other agency, they'll all tell you this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 (edited) Sorry, not possible. Even if you purchase a copy of an image from Getty you still can't reproduce it without an End User Agreement. All photos taken at Premier League or Football League games (and any other of the main football competitions in this country) are governed by Football Dataco licensing restrictions and if you ever buy a photo from Getty or Allsport or Empics or any other agency, they'll all tell you this. I dunno about Getty, don't use them anymore, the football ones appear to be rights managed so you will pay depending on usage. Probably just for editorial though. The club will have plenty or stock pictures taken from pre-season friendlies etc. If anyone on here has some decent shots I would just use them, if you cut the player out and airbrush the FL logo off it would be impossible to get done, not that you would anyway. Edited 29 January, 2010 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypie Posted 29 January, 2010 Share Posted 29 January, 2010 ------and while your at it why not pop in the saints shop and take a few shirts? surely they wont miss them, its only a few quid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitmonSaint Posted 30 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 30 January, 2010 This is a bit of setback for me and the project, but only a small one. It certainly won't stop the project going ahead but it just means that with things like the imagery I'm going to have to be a bit more careful with what I can and can't use. Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply. I look forward to bringing you news of updates to the progress we are making with this website and when it goes live, that you all enjoy the content that it will contain. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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