Ex Lion Tamer

How good would it be if we could find another James Beattie though

Forgive me but you'll have to help me here. Surely it is better to cut business rates in that case?

Well labour is pledging to cancel the Tories' corporation tax cut and use the money to cut business rates for small companies, so that is actually more targeted at the people you are concerned about. I hope you take that into account during your detailed and open minded deliberations [emoji4]

But the letter isn't from them, it's from a bunch of big business fatcats

The fact that we're all discussing it suggests it is news. But the reason it is news is because some naive people will take it seriously rather than because it is something anyone should take seriously

3/10 poor effort [emoji20]

It only took me 5 minutes of reading to find out that Labour made the railways pledge at a time when it thought the tories were only going to privatise half of railtrack. When it turned out that they privatised the whole of it, Gordon Brown successfully argued within the party that the 2bn cost of buying it back was too high. The party has genuinely changed, no one wants to go back to the Michael Foot days, and although thatcher's reforms went too fast without a proper safety net, she did win a lot of the arguments and Labour will never go back to 1970s style socialism

Show leadership, be a trusted, important voice in negotiations

Is that why Hollande and Merkel went to Russia for the recent crisis talks with Putin while Cameron stood isolated on the sidelines as usual? In fact, when was the last time Cameron did anything useful on foreign policy? All he has achieved is isolating us from the rest of Europe http://m.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fe5f3f0-ae03-11e4-919e-00144feab7de.html

There seems to be a disconnect between what you think the Labour Party is and what it actually is. It no longer believes in the socialist utopia, it's a moderate social democratic party. The Tories, on the other hand, still believe in their small state utopia, and that's why they're much more dangerous

It is true that many on the left are pretty hypocritical when it comes to not being willing to change their buying habits, myself included to a fair degree. The trouble is that purchase decisions are so rooted in habit and routine that it's rarely a truly rational decision. The info is all there if anyone wants to help make a difference: http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides.aspx

Listed companies have a responsibility to their shareholders to make as much profit as possible, so you can say it's immoral all you like, but really company bosses have little choice. After all, how can any retailer compete with Amazon unless they adopt the same methods? A question to you all - do you know where your pension is invested? You are probably contributing to the problem in your role as a shareholder. Ultimately we need to pressure our governments to tighten the rules, but there is also personal responsibility. How many of us complain about tax avoidance but then still buy from amazon? Tax avoidance by individuals is a bit different and less defensible, but unfortunately it's human nature that people will convince themselves that things that are in their personal interest are actually OK. The onus here is on us as voters to pressure governments to tighten to the rules, as human nature will never change

But how do you set up a system that punishes the idlers without accidentally hurting vulnerable people? Any rule you lay down will have unintended consequences and when you're taking away people's ability to live and eat it's a very dangerous game to play. Cant you imagine how soul destroying it is for essentially well meaning people to have to make application after application, receiving rejection after rejection, in a marketplace where there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone that needs one? It's inevitable that some people on benefits with barely any disposable income find they have no joy in their lives, get ground down by the enforced application treadmill, and make bad decisions like missing appointments. They then suffer sanctions that actually make it harder for them to turn things round. The mistake that right wingers make again and again is thinking that because they themselves have made sensible rational decisions in their lives then everyone else can and should. The reality is more complicated - people do illogical, dumb things, often with tragic consequences, especially if they are young, haven't had a stable upbringing or have undiagnosed mental health issues

You said that people need to be encouraged to get jobs, within the context of a discussion about benefit sanctions. That surely means you think sanctions are necessary because otherwise people won't try hard enough to get a job?

So you think all people on benefits are workshy and just need to be hit with a stick until they try hard enough to find a job? The fact is that most people on benefits want to work but can't find a job, or they've lost confidence in themselves, or they have mental health problems that stop them holding down a job. Forcing them further into poverty does nothing to change their situation. You think it's all like the people on benefits Street, and some are like that, but they're the minority. In the mean time you have good people suffering, like this guy : http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions

This is what it always comes down to on this forum, you think that because the mega rich have a job which pays them a high salary, they have "earned" their money. I say no one can work hard enough to "earn" those enormous amounts, and it's quite right that the state takes a large proportion of it and gives it to others who aren't blessed with the same intelligence, luck, family connections, stable mental health etc, not to mention pay for roads, infrastructure etc that the wealthy themselves benefit from

So you think that when the economy starts growing, all unemployment is immediately eradicated?

Regardless of whether tax avoidance is moral, the point is the government needs to do something about it instead of focusing on people who can't find a job during an economic downturn

Read the link that bridge too far posted

So what you're saying is he's a poor man's Jeremy Clarkson

I'm not convinced he had the intelligence to make the most of his obvious ability

He's always been an excellent reaction stopper but wait till the near post shots start sneaking in

Seems like Big Vic had made a big difference

Kelvin!!!

I'm giving Bear the all clear, he's much more creative and varied