SW11_Saint

So... a struggling Championship side could never beat Man Utd?? Fight, grit, spirit, passion, determination - and a bit of sublime skill - and there you have it, struggling Derby beat the mighty Man United. Well I never... Mind, must have helped with the feelgood factor of the new manager looking on, as well as of course trying to impress him (oh, and a board who clearly have a bit of a vision and the balls to act when needed). Rupert, Jan... were you watching? (cue the apologists again - lucky Derby, United tired, waiting for 2nd leg etc. etc.).

Sad, but true. Well put.

Exactly.

I don't expect miracles, and good God, don't we know we're not a Premiership club - we're so far from it it's stratospheric (as yesterday helped prove). All I wanted was sensible tactics and bit of fight and spirit. We got little of the former, and the latter only in patches. Of course being down to 10 men and some suspect decisions against us didn't help - but I also think they're being used by some as an excuse for the more worrying aspects of our performance.

Not really, well, not intended that way - more amazement that someone could see the same game I was at in such a light. There's being 'upbeat' and then there's kidding yourself (and there's far too much of that going on at the club for my liking anyway...). I think United coasted it - and from what I saw, hardly broke sweat. You can make all of the excuses you want - and believe me NO ONE expected us to win, me included - but we were outclassed AND outfought with ease. Believe McManaman said something in his commentary along the lines of "... [we] offered less in all departments than any other lower league team who played this weekend.". I hate to say it, but I agree with him, and I think the scoreline flattered us.

I hate to criticise anyone for being 'glass half full', but this either has to be tongue in cheek or you're one of Rupes PR moles...!

The blind leading the blind...

Most of my views already represented on here, but some observations: We were never going to win, and I truly feared an embarrasing drubbing, so on paper (and I do hate to admit this) I am actually reasonably 'happy' with a 0-3 result. Thought the red card was harsh at the time, but having now seen in on TV, it wasn't. The penalty - opinion seems split (Davis clearly thinks it was a pen, but most pundits don't), and I do think it hit his head, although a difficult decision for Riley I think he was rash to award a pen. The first goal offside? Yes, but you see tons of goals in that area given. Basically, if they hadn't have scored those three, they'd have stepped up a gear and scored 3 or 4 more. United really didn't get out of 2nd gear. As someone commented to me at half-time - it looked like Berbatov was an adult playing in a school playground game... What worried me most was the total lack of opportunities we created. Okay, we're going to get beaten, but give it a go for goodness sake. I thought JP might have played an older head like Euell (whatever you think of him, he does have experience), and his team selection as again somewhat 'odd'. Also, once we were down to 10, and had used our subs, I couldn't work out what system we were playing at all (or if we were). Ian Holloway on R5L made a similar point - even down to 10, keep your shape "two rows of 4, and 1 up front". At times we seemed to have all of the foward players bunched together - again like a schools game. This is concerning, as I am really starting to lose faith in JP's ability to change formations and issue clear instructions to his players. I also suspect he is deficient in that other key facet of any successful manager - being able to motivate and gee up his players. This is absolutely critical in a relegation battle. If he can't rally the troops we have no hope. I don't give a f*ck about the FA Cup this year, but if we (he) cannot turn things around ASAP (and I have question his ability to do so), then we MUST move to a plan B. By the way, what is 'Plan B' Rupert?

Indeed a great writer - always enjoy his golf columns in The Grauniad. Also of course bassist in Lloyd Cole and the Commotions (although had no idea he also played with the Bluebells). Have posted a link to his articles below. http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/lawrencedonegan Well done on all of the great work with Ron - you and the chaps at GITR have done us proud. Cheers.

Presume this was posted elsewhere, but just incase... good article, and a useful bit of propoganda by Lawrie... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jan/03/southampton-fa-cup-lawrie-mcmenemy

Nice article - interesting that Ron comes across as so unaware of the deep affection for him among Saints fans (or rather, was before the GiveittoRon appeal) or his legendary status as part of our history. Well done Tim and others responsible for the GiveittoRon appeal.

I am no fan of Lowe, and do think he must live or die by the success of otherwise of the Dutch experiment. But it does does beg the question - what on earth does Wilde do? He is after all the SFC Chairman, and you would expect therefore be responsible for team management decisions. Yet he is clearly not, and has never professed to be as far as I am aware (Lowe introducing JP etc. in the press conference as I remember). I do find it astounding that someone who presumably has a certain amount of business acumen, given the fortune he's amassed, can so blatantly play the part of lap-dog to Lowe. Strange indeed and hints a very signficant personality flaw.

He does actually have some So'ton links - his Dad worked in the docks for years.

Can't even think why we are debating. It's Mick Channon. No. 8. Second name on the team sheet after No. 7...

I think Rupert is the one who "churns through managers" - perhaps you should have word in his shell-like...?

Lowe came back of his own volition to protect his investment. He wouldn't, likely couldn't, accept any other position than head honcho - his ego wouldn't allow anything else - and typically likes to surround himself with yes men and lackeys (and invertebrates like Wilde) so I think him being set-up as some sort of fall guy is highly unrealistic. Without going too far off topic, I'd also suggest that his wholesale changes to the coaching setup before the season only added to the "certainty of a poor season". *Please note the 95% of the vote does not count abstentions (Crouch etc.), so is a false view of his true mandate.

She does now.

Less a case of people 'wanting managers out' more a case of blatantly ill-judged appointments from the board in the first place. You are then left with no choice but to act (or would you have persevered with Wigley?). End of Feb will be far too late - we will be marooned in the bottom three by then no doubt, but then I doubt Lowe will act at all, so you'll likely get your wish, and the rest of us will suffer the consequences...

We do support the team, just not the idiots who continue to take this club spiralling downwards through daft decisions (and I include pretty much everyone who has served on the SFC/SLH board in the last 5-6 years in that number). As a season ticket of many years, a shareholder, and a loyal fan I have every right to criticise what I see as failing/failed management. Perhaps the club did spend too much on wages - again down to failed management at boardroom level - but I'd gladly see 1 or 2 of those out on loan currently back here for a spell scoring the goals we need to cling on to our CCC position. We've also spent far too much paying off mangerial contracts from ill thought out appointments... (of course, that is never mentioned when analysing our parlous financial predicament).

In the same way German's who didn't support Hitler should have started a "I hate Germany" campaign one presumes... Just because we don't agree with you or RL, and won't 'tow the party line' does not mean (a) that we don't support the club - in fact, I'd argue it actually proves we DO (b) that we should not be able to express our views openly. Um... someone who gets infuriated and hits out when people express opinions opposite to their own... now, just who is it you remind me of...?

It's a very simple reason. We can't afford to keep him, and won't be prepard to 'gamble' to retain a player who has so far been something of a lynchpin. Yes, of course, I'm a pessamistic old b*start and distrustful of anything that comes out of the OS Lowe spin machine. Mind, year after year of gross mismanagement will do that to a fella... As I say, if it helps you younger chaps to get through a ****ty season by swalling everything on the OS hook line and sinker, good for you!

There are too many on the horizon to count. A thumping by Man Utd is next - clearly expected, but now without doubt following the loss of Cork and likely absence of Lallana and Surman (wonder if Pravda will try to pin the 8-0 drubbing on Cork too?). Retention of JP, despite the Man Utd humilation and the continuation of poor results. Lowe refusing to admit there's any problem whatsoever. Relegation. Likely administration. ...Happy days.

Couldn't agree more. Where do we get one of them then?

Swallow the OS propoganda if you like mate, no skin off my nose. The "dutch revolution" is really taking off too, isn't it? Happy days...

And you'd expect Pravda to say anything else?! Another easy way to deflect criticism from them to the player...