SW11_Saint

Of course - we won't see them again in a Saints shirt, sold off cut-price in Jan to whoever comes in... What an awful state of affairs.

There seems to be little chance on that last one, which will clearly impact our financial position. The global recession will be around for at least 12 months, more likely 18 (either way, far too long to 'hang on'). With the prevailing economy, the "Lowe factor", and our current precarious position (financial and footballing), which ever way you look at it - we are well and truly fooked...

Nick Holmes or David Armstrong, but I think Nicky H will have to be a sub since he was so versatile, so it's David Armstrong for me...

Well the Wigley issue will get us onto whether he should have been appointed or not (clearly NOT! - another visionary measure by Lowe), in the same we could debate JP's appointment. You are right though, there is absolutely no way to guarantee that a change will work. But it might just give us a chance as clearly we are not going to survive with Poortvliet at the helm. Silly analogy, but if your house was on fire and someone said "here's 20 buckets of water, they might help, they might not" would you just shrug and say "nah, no point... it's going to burn anyway"? Any new guy will face the same financial constraints - and sadly we might even face the choice of selling a Lallana or Surman to bring in one or two Championship battlers. Point being again, that surely doing something is better than doing nothing... (although I agree Wotte and Hockaday isn't really an alternative). Re. the point about "paying off mangaer" - couldn't agree more, but unfortunately that comes with the territory with Lowe and his poor managerial decision making...

So what, we sit back and do nothing then, leading to the inevitable - and watch everyone who have taken action battle it out? You'd be at home in the boardroom!

As you will have seen, Forest, after getting four goals thumped past them yesterday by Doncaster have sacked Colin Calderwood (note this is the team how just cruised passed us 2-0 at SMS without hardly breaking sweat...). I imagine they'll have Billy Davies or someone lined up and the new man will bring a bit of fight and positivity to a beleaguered squad. It may work, it may not, but the important thing is they have taken action to try to get out of the mess they are in. No one likes to see people sacked, but read what their CEO is saying "... it's imperative that the club stays in the Championship". Exactly. Yet our board sit impotently by; demoralising results follow dismal performances - promising kids with their confidence sapped, old pro's frustrated at a lack of direction in a competitive league like this. Tick, tock, tick, tock... simply waiting for the inevitable to happen... Frankly, it just isn't good enough - yet of course they cannot act and remove JP and bring someone else in, as this would entail admitting that another bizarre experiment with our club has failed. Lowe, due to his ego, just cannot admit another catastrophic error in his managerial decision making. He'd rather sit and watch the club sink into League 1, and in all probability Administration. So, one last plea to the boardroom - does anyone in there, curently quaking behind the curtains, have the balls to make a difficult decision and end poor old JP's floundering and appoint someone who can instill a bit of fight and spirit and at least give us half a chance of getting out of this mess? [of course the other issue is, do we trust them to make a sensible appointment anyway?!]. If, as I suspect, the answer is NO, then we're just left relying on Jan to do the honourable thing and step down, realising his limitations. If no action is taken, there is surely only one way this club is heading...

Don't think we'll ever agree with Lowe's record on 'sacking' managers, but there you go. Anyway, have a happy Xmas with your family, and let's all hope for a better 2009 for the Saints and us fans!

By the way everyone... finally the hysteria around this "Zimbabwe analogy" peaked my interest, and I went back to see what could have caused such outrage... Shock! Horror! - a sensible and relevant analogy by Alpine about the power of vote abstention, and a totally innocuous follow-up comment by Um simply saying that it was a reasonable analogy. STRING ‘EM UP! Good lord! Will those of you doing cartwheels of outrage please calm down (or get your job applications into The Daily Mail ASAP!). Enough now, stop making a mountain out of a molehill, and let's draw a line under that particular issue, and get back to the topic at hand... PS Merry Xmas everyone! (except Lowe & Co. obviously…)

No, but you might go around saying "I've lost my job!" ("...and not only that, but the ****** they've given it to doesn't seem qualified for the post." - but that's a different discussion!). Rather than "Lowe bashing", I prefer to call it "accountability". Comes with the post I'm afraid - if he wants to make 'revolutionary changes' for, what seems to me, no good reason, then he has to be accountable for how that change works out. I'd say that's more than fair, if we were top of the league, I'd be praising him as a genius. I haven't really commented on the other individuals you name, but frankly on an Internet bulletin board I'd say anything was pretty much fair game! PS I knew you meant paedo - was just trying to subtely point out how annoying it can be to be pedantic...

On the Pearson issue, please refer to my previous reply to you on this topic: PS What's a "pedo"?

"94.95% of Saints fans want Lowe OUT".

It's very misleading to use the word "popular vote" (which indicates the measure of overall share of the vote in a one-man-one-vote system), when we're talking about block voting of shares. If Lowe, his monkey Wilde, and the few other supporters he has vote to reinstate him, and Crouch & co. abstain, then clearly he will get the sort of headline number we're talking about. It is in no way a measure of "popularity". Far from it, the AGM walkout (prompted by his behaviour) - not to mention the reaction of the crowd at the forthcoming games - are a much better indication of how 'popular' he is. You have a good point on Chorley though. His antics, presumably motivated by a wish to again be centre stage (pantomime dame?) and get himself in the papers (he got what he wanted, well done), merely detracted from the central issues, and again allowed Lowe to lump all sensible opposition to him into the "lunatic fringe".

Dare I say it, is it perhaps time the fans had their say - at the Man U game for example? I cannot bear to just sit by and watch this ***t take us down AGAIN with one of his hair-brained schemes...

Unbelievable. But I'm proud to be part of the 5.05% that did vote against him. Where did Saints Trust stand on this?

One thing to be willing to 'talk to serious investors', quite another to be proactively seeking new investment - in the way Sheff Weds are, and we are patently NOT!

Agree totally. Crouch is not dissimilar to JP in many ways - heart in the right place, but not quite up to the job. Lowe is a walking disaster, Wilde is... well, I'm not sure what Wilde is anymore (an invertebrate perhaps?). We desperately need new investment, new leadership, new ideas - but sadly it's unlikely to come - due to the overriding economic conditions and also our current constitution (i.e. having to deal with the '3 stooges').

I take your point, although it is rather pedantic. Ok, Lowe 'removed him from his position', 'didn't renew his contract' - however you spin it, his tenure terminated at SFC as soon as Lowe took the reigns again. No doubt you will counter with the propoganda from the time put about by Lowe and his spin doctors that 'Pearson was more expensive than JP/Wotte'. Looking back, that might have been a massive false economy? I certainly think so. What's that old saying again: "you pay peanuts; you get monkeys".

Absolutely right Um. Everyone seems to think we have to have a white knight to come in with bags of money to rid us of the spectre of Lowe. Not true (although of course it would be the ideal scenario). As you point out executives are replaced all the time. Our problem of course is that Wilde how holds all of the cards here and unless he grows a pair, we're going to be stuck with Lowe for the foreseeable future. I'd actually even accept Cowan or someone as an interim CEO/Chairman, but I suspect he would always stick with Lowe out of loyalty. If things tipped the other way again (surely, this is even beyond Wilde?), back to Crouch & Co. that wouldn't fill me with hope either. All in all an awful position to find ourselves in, with an absolute dearth of boardroom talent, or alternatives, available. That said, I do think we MUST stop this ridiculous experiment with JP now before it's too late. He'd be fine as a Youth development coach, but is clearly out of his depth at this level - as we all suspected. Time to make a change, and if that happens Lowe would surely have to fall on his sword,given that this was another of his 'revolutionary' ideas... ...(right, some hope!).

Given that Lowe came in and "sacked everyone" (Pearson etc.), clearly without a clue of what to do next, are you including him in that group? Mind, even if Lowe had money I wouldn't trust him with it.

I've never been more concerned about a total and utter humilation. Of course we're used to the odd 7 goal drubbing at places like Everton, even when we were in the premiership, but the gulf in class between us and United is truly frightening. I actually think we will be worse off it they play their kids - which Fergie is bound to do, no need for a first team vs. us - as they always look to impress and they have an incredible array of talent. It could truly be double figures, no doubt about it, but I suspect it will end up being 5 or 6-1 (the '1' possibly coming first to jerk them into action...).

To suggest our sorry state started simply because we didn't appoint Glen Hoddle is rather ridiculous...

I am all for giving people time, but this is the last straw for me I am afraid. Jan Poortvliet was the wrong appointment, at the wrong time; appointed by a man with a track record of poor decisions and the drastically misguided belief that he "always knows better" than anyone else. We had a very able young manager in Nigel Pearson (note readers, Leicester won 4-0 today to cement their place at the top of League 1), some promising youngsters who could have been brought through in a considered and sensible way, without over-pressurisinng them, and some seasoned pro's who could help their progression. We could easily have cut costs etc. but have retained Pearson and the hub of a half-decent side. But oh no, it was time for another moment of 'genius' by the leader of the board... If anyone else was Chairman I'd want them to ACT NOW, end this bizarre experiment with lower league Dutch coaches, and appoint someone with experience. But of course our Chairman is Rupert Lowe (I'm ignoring the monkey that is the SFC Chairman, and focussing on the organ-grinder here) so (a) he won't do anything to stop the rot, as that will entail admitting he was wrong, something he is unable to to - even if for the good of the club; and (b) who the **** would trust him to make a sensible appointment anyway?? Today was a must win game. We LOST. The manager must carry the can for our inability to win at home. Can you imagine any other club with a home record of just one win all season retaining the services of their manager? We are in very grave danger of slipping into the third tier of english football. Read that sentence again, and think about it. If you are reading this, you think about it too Mr. Lowe. Do you just sit idly by, continuing to watch us fall apart, or do you take action NOW to try and stop the rot? In honesty, I have absolutely no faith in you whatsoever to do the right thing, and my AGM ballot-card illustrated this fact, but against logic, I do cling to the remote hope that you will take counsel from those around you and do something to help save our Saints while there is still time...

He did what any sensible person reviewing our balance sheet would have done - and no doubt he was required to do by the bank - cut costs. Cutting costs however has to be balanced with the right strategy for the club - sure, cut some of those who are earning too much, but keep those who can still going to make a positive impact (e.g. Stern John). Is sacking the coaching staff and appointing a brand new set of coaches a cost cutting measure? I'd debate that one. I agree that Crouch had let costs get out of hand, but it doesn't make Lowe a genius for identifying the issue. The greatest tragedy in all of this, is that with our history, fan base and potential that we have been subjected to a stream of sub-standard Chairmen. We really deserve better.

Sorry? Please provide some evidence for this statement? A 'cracking businessman' doesn't lose £30m through poor decisions, have 90+% of his customer base against him and attract the most appalling PR the company has ever known. Will everyone please stop thinking that just because Lowe worked in the City he's some sort of corporate genius. He's nothing like - just a small time businessman, like all of the other jokers we've had in recenty years running the club.

We had a good young manager, we had a decent youth set up, we had some experienced heads to help them along. Most felt we had 'turned the corner' after the Sheff Utd. game last season. Cut costs/dead wood by all means, but keep a decent spine and and bleed in the better youngsters as and when they are ready. We'd probably be at least mid-table. We'd likely be getting regular 20k+ gates. Oh no, that was all too simple. What we really needed was another Lowe "revolutionary" idea - 'total football' played by teenagers with no experience, in a cloggers league, managed, sorry 'coached' by a Dutchman with good intentions but no experience of English football, and with a managerial record of lower dutch leagues only. It was barmy then, it's barmy now. But as ever with Lowe, the only way he ever gets proved wrong hurts the club terribly. Incidentally, no one will ever convince me that getting rid of Pearson was motivated by anything other than spite (against Crouch). Sadly, unless someone comes in that can move the club forward and we can finally rid oursleves of Lowe, his ridulous ideas, and his toxic mix of ego, arrogance and ignorance, we're basically f****d. The club is literally falling apart before our eyes...