verlaine1979

We still look utterly shit. Under the cosh for 40ish minutes and simply riding our luck. No control at all.

Because you'd have to stack AA and Fraser on top of each other to make one normal size attacker.

AA just doesn't have it at this level. Technique just isn't there.

Wtf Bree - Cornet was on for the one two in acres.

We've played much, much better football and scored better goals under both Ralph and Poch within recent memory. We had lots of possession last season, but our movement off the ball was actually pretty shit, favoring retention over risk. Hence so many dull games where we struggled to create despite hogging the ball.

So dominant? Are you sure? We got at them and put some nice moves together, but they created multiple chances and stretched us every time we lost possession. We were competitive, but let's not lose perspective. We did well for half an hour against a united team who played themselves into the match and then comfortably beat us. It's not the second coming.

Interesting - wonder if they're always half thinking about creating an angle to receive the ball even when we haven't got it.

We competed well for 30 mins, but both teams had plenty of opportunities in that time. It's not as if we were battering them and they couldn't wait to give us back possession. More like going toe to toe, which is obviously a step up from the attacking dross of the first three games. But let's not pretend everything had clicked into gear and it was only the penalty that caused everything to fall apart. United had already created plenty and we looked stretched every time we lost the ball.

Watching a recording of the game - midfield shape looks a lot better at least with lots more options for the pass.

At this level he generally has to go past someone or make space before he can get his shot away, and he just doesn't have the talent to do that. He's the same player, it's just that defenders are quicker and defenses more disciplined in the PL. He runs into a brick wall every time he has the ball.

He's got a knack for finding that bottom right corner from some of the other goal highlights I've seen. But yeah, that's not Boufal, let alone Maradona.

Didn't we end this record-breaking unbeaten run further behind the team that actually won the league than when we started it?

The "narrative" line is pretty annoying. Literally every established PL team these days, with the possible exception of Everton, plays a progressive mixture of pressing and possession. Dyche is the only dinosaur left. There was nothing unsophisticated or agricultural about the way that Forest and Brentford took us apart, and I've no doubt that we'll see the same when we play the likes of Bournemouth, Fulham and Wolves. In contrast our passing looks aimless most of the time, lacking movement and a coherent idea of how to break pressure and create space.

The insistence on the purity (and utility) of his footballing vision is just nonsense. We've played two of our fellow relegation contenders and neither played with any less sophistication or care towards the ball than we did. In fact, both Forest and Brentford put together many more quick and intricate moves than we managed. Martin doesn't have a revolutionary system or philosophy, he just has an inflexible and inferior idea of what the rest of elite football is already doing.

BBD should be our plan B and AA should get 5 minutes here and there when we've run out of ideas. Also, Downes is outmatched by most PL midfield pairings. Needs an athlete like Les beside him for the physical battles.

This is shameful. We're not even *good* at playing out from the back. Bednarek has always been shit at it. We move is so slowly that every pass is played under close pressure. That isn't how it's meant to work! Both Forest and now Brentford have popped it around with much greater speed and accuracy than we can muster.

Edozie should definitely be a long way down the pecking order for first attacking sub after that performance. SAA shrugged off the ball quite a few times, but much more composed and used it better, even aside from the fantastic finish.

There's nothing particularly unusual about attacking midfielders of below elite level getting the ball nicked off them in the middle of the park. Both Stuart Armstrong and Steven Davis lost the ball in those circumstances all the time leading to dangerous turnovers.

I'm curious as to how Martin arrived at his possession-first philosophy. If players like Alcaraz are being cut adrift because they lose the ball too often in the attacking third, where are the examples of managers who've thrived only through retention and off the ball movement? The lazy answer is that he's copying Guardiola, but that just isn't true. Guardiola's teams have always had players in both the middle and out wide who are trusted to try and beat their man and create overloads. If anything, he's become even more liberal about this in the last few years, giving Doku regular minutes despite his mixed end-product.

We need players in the middle who can receive the ball under pressure, turn and carry it forward before offloading it, even if only for a few yards to get the defense moving backwards. Gibbs-White did it several times yesterday, either with strength or by having the technique to beat his marker, enabling Elanga and Hudson-Odoi to make runs in anticipation of the pass. You can't advance the ball with any sort of tempo if you exclusively pass it short to players who rigidly stand with their backs to goal.

"It's not the system, we just need to play with a quicker tempo." Seen this said a few times since yesterday, but it ignores an important consideration. The likes of Bednarek, McCarthy, Aribo, Armstrong etc. pass the ball slowly because they aren't technically good enough to pass the ball both quickly and accurately. That has always been the flaw in Martin's ambition - we play a possession game that is too slow to reliably move opponents out of position. On the contrary, our slow build up helps the opposition defense establish and maintain their positions. Hopefully Les, Mateus and a new AM are all able to receive the ball on the turn, as the "only play the way you're facing" schoolboy crap just isn't going to cut it at this level.

Could 4-3-1-2 work with what we have? Back four picks itself, then Downes/Les/Mateus - Dibling (or new AM) - BBD/Archer

Our possession-first tactic looks a little pointless when the likes of Forest look so much better at keeping the ball in tight spaces when they needed to. Tapping the ball between statues before turning back at the half way line is the definition of propaganda football.

Bit men against boys so far.

Can't see us wanting to commit to 30m for Ramsdale next season, however good he is.