um pahars

Are you referring to the Dodd and Gorman tenure??? I've never got my head around that one. I never had it down as a permanent set up, merely that they were holding the fort until they appointed someone (although I know there was that statement saying something like they were here for the forseeable future or whatever - has anyone got a link to it). I also didn't consider that they were sacked when Pearson came in. I know Exit2 has an in to Dodd, so would be interested to know as to whether Dodd thought they had the job full time or whether he thought they were just keeping the seat warm.

How did you come to that opinion??? Looking at Wotte's CV, I accept that it's better than Poortvliet's, but then so again is Stuart Ritchies!!!!!!! Wotte is no outstanding Dutch manager, his CV is littered with failure, relegations and short tenures. If Poortvliet got bigged up for taking Den Bosch to promotion when they were coming back from financial turmoil, then you have to look at the season before, when it was Wotte who was at the helm when they were relegated and went in to financial turmoil. Being honest, and I'm not running us down, if he was any good, then he wouldn't have been appointed as reserve team coach with us last summer.

Absolutely. And what worries me most, is that the preparations and start to this season were so similar to the farce that was the 2004/05 season. And that season was not farcial just because we lost our place at the top table (as others have pointed out, it's an annual risk for most teams), it was the manner in which we gave ourselves a mountain to climb but ccking it up right from the start!!!!!! I just hope history does not repeat itself, as although the fall out from relelgation last time was shattering, I fear that the fall out this time around might be catastophic!!!!

Why are you throwing in a random name, I was asking who striker number 4 was? But seriously, thanks for pointing out who number four was, cheers.

Stern John did his job with his goals last season. Burley bought Saga, and then did nothing with him. I may be wrong, but Rasiak was treated awfully as well Burley after his successful play off season, and then went out on loan in the second half of the season. Who was striker number 4???

IMHO Schneiderlin was bought solely as a potential asset to groom and quickly sell on. If he goes for a couple of million then it will looked at as a good deal and if he doesn't, then questions will/should be asked. IMHO, when money is tight and we have a mountain to climb, I would have thought the first priority would be to have the strongest possible team in the short term and to stay up. Therefore, I'm with you 100%, and rather than indulge in the player speculation game, all our monies (and efforts) should have been channelled into giving ourselves the strongest possible chance of staying up. Like you, I would have spent the money (even if was not the full £1.2m) on keeping one of our goalscorers at the Club. When people say we had no choices this season, then the appointment of Poortvliet and the signing of Schneiderlin are too easy ripostes (although there are many others as well!!!).

FFS the league don't award points for what you sense or for what you're little inside track is telling you. Pray tell, what was your little inside track telling you through the first 28 games of the season when we were going to fck?

We're not down yet, by any stretch of the imagination and as long as we have a chance then the team will get my support. I'm sure that's true of most supporters, who although they think we probably will go down, they will nto give up supporting the team until we have no chance. But that's not the same as branding everyone as defeatists and as bad as the French in the 1940's. Realistic, yes, defeatists no way.

I presume you were watching us in 1960 then, because we have never been so low!!!!

Last time I looked they were above us in the league and a tad more successful in recent years. It wasn't until they had rid themselves of some right twts of owners that they started to move onwards and upwards. I just hope that our period in the lower leagues is not as long as theirs was.

nickh, you really should go easy on such lines. Many were derided on here as being pessimists, doom mongers etc etc etc at the start of the season, whilst many (yourself included) were quick to harangue them for actually just being realistic (and as it turned out quite prophetic). Given our current position and given our current form, it's not unrealistic to think we will probably be relegated. Of course none of us want that to happen and we hope there is still plenty of time to turn things around, but claims of defeatism etc are a tad harsh.

Last paragraph. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=3904

Where have I said that? Going back to when Hone and Co were still in charge, my position has always been a non aligned independent chairman, a non aligned salaried CEO, Non exec positions for the three major blocks of shareholders. But cutting to the chase, your support of the appointment of Poortvliet is embarrassing, with or without hindsight.

Interesting, because I would argue recent results (and performances) have shown no real progress. There is also another post on here saying that there are splits in the dressing room, something I have been hearing for quite a while (although admittedly not recently, but then again I haven't spoken to my source recently). I don't think most supporters are acting like spoilt brats crying because we're not in the top flight, i think they are more upset because they are being taken for granted and instead of the Club being run well, they can see it being run appallingly. Just as Portsmuff fans campaigned against sht owners such as Deacon, Gregory et al, many are complaining here for exactly the same reasons.

So when did you stop going to home games????

Firstly, it wasn't 14 games it was 16. We were in the bottom 3 when Wigley left and going downhill fast. That defeat against Watford was particularly demoralising as we were stuffed in every sense of the word. Getting on to our third manager in a season, having wasted the pre season and the transfer kitty was always asking for trouble. The very fact that we then appointed someone whose heart wasn't in it just adds fuel to the fire. One can only assume our recruitment process is not very robust. Secondly, I enjoyed Jonah asking the Board to accept responsibility about Redknapp's appointment (as i think they probably should). Not sure they could accept responsibility about the appointment of Wigley mind, as some of them weren't even consulted!!!!!! That last season in the top flight was not unlucky, unfortunate or just one of those things, it was gross mismanagement almost from the off. Going down fighting is one thing, giving yourself a mountain to climb due to some disastrous management/board decisions is another thing entirely.

Well, quite frankly you must be one of them if on one hand you whinge like fck when Alpine labels you a Lowe Luvvie, yet you yourself are quick to label me as a Crouch supporter (see above). Logic implies the application of sensible rational thought and argument, rather than ideas that are influenced by emotion, whim or even ego, and I would concur that Lowe used little of the former and bucketloads of the latter.

How distant August must feel with all your little posts about me;) How about who should be our next manager? Still going with:

Lowe has his way of working (and I have some issues with his over involvement) and Reknapp has his way of working (and I have some issues with his old school methodology), but what became clear was that there was no way these two were going to be able to pull it off. As you say, you have to just either let Redknapp get on with it, or not appoint him in the first place. I know it was after we were relegated, but that press conference with SCW, Arry and Lowe just summed it al up for me. All smiles in front of the cameras, stabbing each other in the back off of it!!!

As I posted the other day, you're coming across as a complete idiot if on one hand you moan that Alpine pigeon holes you as a Lowe Luvvie and then do exactly the same with me regards Crouch. Either a hypocrite or a fool. Behave yourself. You're the one trying to defend the indefensible by suggesting there was no other way, we had nothing to lose and it was all logical. Go and have a lie down and then come back and let's discuss the logic of Poortvliet being appointed when he had no experience of this league, no nous on how to get results and a rather blinkered and one dimensional approach on how to set his teams out. There was no logic to that approach other than a tenuous connection that Poortvliet had worked with a few teams in the lower leagues of Dutch football who had fck all money and a few youngsters. Going on that logic, we should have scoured the Conference for our next manager.

Two points on this one: Firstly, if a rot has set in (and it had set in deep with us, even getting spanked by Watford), then it will take some undoing. Wigley left us in the bottom three after a disastrous run of games against our relegation rivals. We had wasted the important pre season build up and a fairly sizeable sum with regards transfers (with most of it being spent by someone else!!). A period when players are bought, sides are shaped and the season planned out. Wigley left us two games from halfway through the season and whilst nothing is decided at that point (unless you're Derby), we were left in a mess. Secondly, albeit with hindsight, you do have to question Lowe's appointment of Redknapp, a man whose was apparently not in it from day one. You would have thought that might have been teased out in the selection process;)

So only prepared to have a pop on here then.

Logic in appointing JP, are you fcking mad????? Where was the logic in employing a non descript Dutch manager, with no knowledge of the English game (and that's not being xenophopbic BTW), whose CV is on a par with Stuart Ritchie and who proved to be a total disaster??? If the logic was he was used to working with youngsters and with no money, then he should have been interviewed alongside Vospers U-18's manager.

IMHO, Gray was always going to get the job, once Moyes was out of the running (something that a number of my contacts assured me would be the case). Even publicly, throughout that time Lowe spoke about the need for continuity, he also let Gray sign Anders Svensson for just under £1m. I was led to believe that once Moyes ruled himself out by not being able to bring in his own men, Gray was effectively given the job.