um pahars

It's just a reflection of the sht state of the Club (and City). Simple as that.

Following on from something in the Mike Williamson thread, could we produce a team of Academy players who could all play together as we stand here today (i.e. No Shearers, Wallaces etc). They have to have come throught the Academy from a junior (i.e. no Kenwyne Jones) and still have to be playing. And where would they be in the 92 places in the league???? GK: ??? RB : ??? CB's : Monk, Cranie, Mills LB : Bridge, Bale RM : CM's : Howard LM : Bridge or Bale CF's : Best, Blackstock, Walcott, McDonald

Think about it logically. Take out the foreign players and where do you think all the other players up and down the leagues came from??? I'll give you a clue, most of them came from an Academy of some description. Ours was not the panacea some tried to make it out to be. It was arguably not really that different from many up and down the country. So how about coming up with a team of our Academy players over the last 10 years (and then placing them in the league): Keeper : Have we produced one? RB : ??? CB: Williamson (Championship strugglers) CB: Mills or Cranie (Both hardly setting the world apart) LB: Bale RM: ??? CM: ??? CM: ??? LM: Bridge CF: Walcott CF: McDonald Could we put together a team that would be worthy of top flight place??? I doubt it.

John finished the season on fire and Poortvliet and/or Lowe never gave him a chance to carry on. Told he could leave, cold shouldered (I even think the lad on loan to Bournemouth go the nod ahead of him at one point) and marginalised, it was our decision to let him go with a whimper. Saga and Rasiak were terribly managed by Burley last season. After signing both of them, he consigned them to the subs bench and failed to get the best out of them. Players have to take some responsibility, but if there's one example of how much of an impact a poor manager can have on a team (in addition to Poortvliet, of course) then Burley's usage of players and tactics before he jumped ship would be up there with the best of them.

We've already tried that. News is hitting Um Towers that Poortvliet's 60,000 euros was actually paid to Saints (not Helmond) in return for letting him take the reins at St Mary's.

I think I'll leave it, as like you say I wouldn't put it past Lowe either signing himself as a player, coach or even manager;)

It was a cheap shot by Lowe as the same sort of stuff went on when he was at the helm, and as others have said on this thread it goes on at every club in the land. Loads of players don't make it because their position in the first team is blocked by a good player, they just get the break, they develop late, managers want instant results so buy a ready made player etc etc etc. We could easily make up a team of players who have passed through us, just as every other team in the land could.

Both 20 a season scorers for us (the latter in a relegation threatened team), who IMHO proved their worth when they were used correctly by us. What we would give for a 20 a season scorer this time around.

I'm sure they were. Lowe was most definitely a Lowe signing. He was on loan for us for the second half of the season and was made permanent a month before Lowe left office. What your saying is fair to those who said he didnt try to invest, but I'm not one of them;). I was always of the mind that Lowe/Cowen's approach that summer wasn't that different to what Wilde/Hone did. Lowe made a number of statements regarding backing the manager in the transfer market that summer. He also alluded to a "warchest" or reserves which some people took to be a sum of money locked away ready to use, when in reality this was just a "term" which identified an agreement to spend a certain amount of cash in the transfer market, which as Hone pointed out would have to be funded by debt.

Not privy to either nickh, so sorry on the factual stuff and can only give you my opinion/insight. With regards the first, the biggest was player wages, which came down by a couple of million. Our wages for the second half of the first season down were just as high as for the first six months, so there never seemed to be that much movement that season, even though we were selling off ex Prem players through the season (may have been due to contractual issues though). They then dropped by a couple of million under Hone in the second season down. Hone & others were also critical of some of the contracts and overheads (as well as income streams) the Club was running with, but they never went into detail of what they were, or what sums were involved. I'm sure there were contributions from Lowe/Cowen just as there were from Hone/Wilde to the drop in costs. As I said in my post above, I honestly didn't see much difference in the way the most of the Club was run post Boardroom change in the summer of 2006 with regards finances etc, particularly when you look at Rasiak's signing and the other promises about supporting Burley, along with Lowe & Cowen's assertion that we need to earn repromotion during the parachute period, which is why I then find it rather irksome that people blast everything Hone/Wilde did in that first season, when arguably is wasn't a million miles away from what Lowe/Cowen were planning. Indeed their time for implementation of Plan B was the summer 2007, which brings us nicely on to your second question. As for Plan B, it was something everyone alluded to (Lowe, Cowen, Wilde, Crouch aneven Hone & co). I don't think it was a Top Secret Plan kept in the safe, more a strategy to reduce costs at the same time as the second parachute payment ended. What it entailed, what sums it involved and over what period it would be implemented was never defined, and I also imagine different individuals had/have a different perception of what it might entail and there are obviously a myriad of ways of how it could be implemented.

When you start trotting out lines such as these above, then it's the surest sign that you've lost the argument. If you could steer clear of the insults, rhetoric and try not to change the subject, then we might get more of a worthwhile debate (or argument). Many focus on the bigger picture. Indeed, even on this thread there is some sensible reasoning and debate, even if individuals don't share the same viewpoint. But this one instance was just a small part of the initial discussion regarding Lowe where you asserted he had handled the PR well since his return. Something that given the furore over his approach to the AGM would suggest otherwise - and there are also a number of other quotes and statements that would suggest he still hasn't mastered the PR side of things (e.g. his gambit in the Annual Report with Chris Iwelumo must be one of his classics). Of course it's all about people's opinions, but you have been the only person I know (and I am happy for others to sign up to that view) who has thought his behaviour and antics at the AGM was befitting of the role and context.

LOL. Thanks for putting a smile on my miserable face tonight. PS I did miss out Alan Brazil and I also reckon I've got an Ipswich team across a couple of eras there as well.

You're quite right about Ipswich and they did have a manager who was uiniversally liked in Bobby Robson. As a team they played it the right way and had a pretty decent team. I used to love Paul Cooper who I'm sure had a great record of penalty saves. And watching Saints up in Sunderland a few years back managed to get out on the lash with Eric Gates in Newcastle after the match and he was a great laugh (even with no teeth). I've probably combined about 3 different teams but I can remember a team of Cooper, Burley, Butcher, Osman, Mills, Wark, Beattie, Muhren, Thyssen, Gates, Mariner. Quite a side, and very similar to us in many ways around that time.

I have to say that I quite liked him and the same can be said about John Wile. My appreciation of Talbot stems from that 1978 Semi Final when he scored the goal (at Highbury I think) against West Brom and in doing so collided with Wile and both of them ended up with really bad cuts. I'm sure Talbot was totally out of it, but ended up a hero even though he was stretchered off, whilst Wile just put a bandage on his head and played on!!!!!!

I had him down as my number 4. and then deleted him. I have to agree he had a real wnk attitude (whingeing, could dish it out but couldn't hack it given back) whenever I saw him play down here and I may be wrong, but was sure he always scored against us!!!!!! Graham Sharpe of Everton was a similar player. Didn't Case or someone absolutley murder him (or was it Bracewell) up at Goodison in one game???

I expect it to be up to date. And if it's too hard work or too costly, then how about asking supporters to help maintain it gratis. I'm sure there are many fans out there who would happily give their time and expertise to at least keep it up to date. (PS Kadeem, I did enjoy your stick man the other night, the one at the petrol station!!!, although i can totally understadn why it was pulled, never laughed so much in ages)

Apparently he's not been productive in recent games:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

He was the lad who we got from Torquay quite a while back. Don't think he ever played for the first team and we were in the Prem when he was trying to break into the first team.

Being a full back at the Dell meant he couldn't hide from the stick he used to receive. I was in the West Stand for one match against Everton, and it has to be the most vociferous stick I have ever witnessed at a match. As you say it was literally everyone in the ground. I used to work with an Everton fan and he couldn't believe the stick Bailey used to get even though it 7 or 8 years on!!!

You need to take 10 points to play for off of your total to play for and probably add one to your points from safety given our inferior goal difference. And given we have only amassed 9 points from the last 14 games, then a six point cushion to overhaul starts to look increasingly worrying. We need 6 points just to overhaul Watford (the only positive there is that we do have to play them - away -, but that could also be the death of us). But they do have a game in hand. We need 7 points just to overhaul Forest (the only positive being we have to play them - away -, but that could also be the death of us). We probably need 8 points just to overhaul Plymouth, and we do have a game in hand. And of course all that assumes Charlton perform worse than us and we manage to overhaul Norwich who have an effective 5 point cushion on us, but we do have a game in hand. Whichever way I look at those stats, even with 42 points still to play for it doesn't make good reading.

It stemmed from when he was playing for Blackburn in the late 70's (I think 1977). Bailey had wound up a young Steve Williams who was then sent off. I think Osgood then chinned Bailey as he was so annoyed and also got sent off. The two of them then trashed the dressing room!!!!! Ossie was soon transfer listed and the hatred of Bailey never went away. I think Lawrie publicly said something along the lines of "Bailey shouldn't sleep easily in his bed tonight for what he did to his fellow professionals". Heard a few years ago that Bailey had fallen on really hard times (I think he was an acoholic and in a very bad way). Therefore as much as he got stick off me in the 70's and 80's. I think I'll leave him out of my list. My top three would be: 1. Adrian Heath - He ruined a dream for me 2. Roger Milford - For playing those extra 16 minutes against Oldham 3. Andy Ricthie - For scoring in those extra 16 minutes

Effectively 6 points from safety due to goal diffference and even then Watford have a game in hand (and have us at home). As results go that was a fcking mare of an evening!!!!!!!!!!

Keep the faith. My Wednesdayite mate reckons they're all over Barnsley!!!!!!!!

I noticed there was something on the BBC site that said Sturrock is at Plymouth for the long run. After this spanking I think it will be a long run out of Home Park. They might just be the team that collapse along with Norwich that allow us to scrape out of the mire (straws, clutching et al).

And I'm sure I remember Lowe having a proper moan about it too, and fair play to him, because it really is a backward step in terms of preparing players for the Championship.