um pahars

He's certainly not as bad as Poortvliet. If some good came out of Poortvliet's tenure, it's that the Branfoot household raised a cheer that he might not be deemed our worst manager anymore!!!!

I certainly don't see Administration as the magic wand that will solve all of our problems, but conversely I don't see it as the end of the Club either. Certainly the end of Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC, but there will always be a Southampton Football Club. The existing Ltd Co. wasn't formed in 1885 and just because we may have to change the ownership again means nothing if the heart of the Club is still there. I'm sure it won't be pretty the other side of Administration and I'm sure it will be hard work (probably for many years), but I refuse to accept that administration will be the death of my Southampton Football Club.

Did I miss that????? PS WHat time did you get away last night??? We ended up staying up until 2 sorting it all out!!!!

If you wanted to look for what will cost the Club's existence, then I think you would do better to look at (a) Why we lost tens of millions from the top line which put us into a position where our finances became untenable, and (b) Why we are going down to Division 3 and therefore almost definitley administration. The two years in between these episodes also saw some ridiculous and reckless decisions (the second year being much worse than the first), but the overriding factors which could cost the Club's existence come eother side of these.

Two things. Firstly this debate was with reference to Lowe's perceived behaviour at the AGM. It's bad enough having Jonah divert the issue, without having you pop up with your little gems:rolleyes:. If you want to create another thread with regards Crouch's poor behaviour at the AGM or his worst mistakes then feel free to start another thread. Secondly, you're obviously struggling with the concept of what goes on at AGM's and how for many shareholders/supporters it's the only time they get to question the board on their performance in recent months and their plans going forward. AGM's aren't just supposed to be about approving accounts, appointing auditors etc, they're an integral part of how the Company and it's Board interacts with it's shareholders. You would expect the Board to outline it's strategy going forward, outline where it has been and it is totally normal and good practice for shareholders to question the Board on either.

I'll certainly be going along again. In Bar Risa before and then a leisurely stroll with friends and like minded supporters to register our point. It was a really good atmosphere last time, about the only thing in recent times that had a spirit of camaraderie and pleasantness about it (certainly not the bloodbath I saw some idiot predict on another list!).

As we found out to our cost in the last days of the Premiership, when different managers brought in different players to play different styles and these different managers all had different favourites etc etc etc. There's definitely fall out when you get relegated and have to replace the "Premiership Stars" [sic], but IMHO, the managerial merry go round has once again contributed to our demise. Ignoring Wise & Basset and D & G, we've had 5 managers in the three and a half seasons we've been down.

Of course it's irrelevant Phil. 99% of the stuff on this board is irrelevant and the vast majority of stuff revolves around subjective and hypothetical viewpoints and opinions. "What ifs", "If only" and "I'd play ...." are part and parcel of being a football fan. Thinking of "what might have been" with regards Pearson is obviously something people will be saying, particularly given that the decision was in our hands, he's doing really well and we're doing really sht. You could never prove one way or the other whether under Pearson we would be 24th or 4th, but given the nature of the game and the current scenario, it's always going to be brought up. Chill out fella, at least you don't get to experience all this sht first hand at matches, us poor buggers get to watch it all go tts up right in front of us.

He's just misunderstood. Get to know him and he's a very decent and honest fella (although he does overdo the hair due and sunbeds)

Diversions, tangents, scraping the bottom of the barrel, we've had them all on here. The bottom line is that judging from the majority of responses on here, Lowe's PR has been found wanting since his return. Of course, there are some who still see no problem with it (:rolleyes:), but the whole idea of PR is winning over the masses, something that Lowe has so obviously failed on. Whether it be from the opening gambit of the "Nine Points" letter which formally opened the battle (Oh, how those "Nine Points" should be reviewed again given the current debacle) through to his disastrous handling of the AGM, this has once again been shown as an area where Lowe is out of touch with his customers/supporters. Therefore, IMHO the original inference that Lowe hasn't done too bad on that front falls down even when you only scratch the surface. He's got "better", but when you originally rivalled Ratner in your ability to alienate and discourage your customers, it was pretty hard to get worse. Lowe should be defended for some of the things he has done for this Club and I have defended and supported him when it was justified, but the blinkered support of his behaviour at the AGM (albeit by only one poster) is, well, I don't want to appear rude, so let's just call it ill-judged:smt048:smt048

Four of those players have got 12 starts between them!!!!!!! Oakley, Howard and Fryatt are regulars, but there's obviously some misinformation doing the rounds if Ponty and you still think they have the Championship squad from last season. That said, even if they did (which they don't), it was a Championship side that wasn't worthy of being a Championship side and as we found out the hard way, getting promoted is not that easy. The three who are regulars above plus Dyer are the stalwarts. Then there are youngsters/loanees such as King, Hobbs, Martin, Gilbert, Morrison, Mattock etc. and a few other decent free transfers such as Dyer. Very often, the majority of the team that Pearson has been playing with have been youngsters brought in on loan, or youngsters from Leicester's Academy, and the team bears little resemblence to the one that got relegated last season. And some of them were the same players who were relegated last season, so I'm not sure why you should be wnking your legs off over them. Pearson may not be the next Hot Young British Managerial Prospect, but he has done a mighty fine job rebuilding a new Leicester squad and turning them into promotion favourites. The idea that he has just waltzed in and taken an underperforming Championship team and dusted them down couldn't be farther from the truth. Here's something I posted a while back when someone else trotted out the same lazy line without doing any research. You may want to have a rethink about what Pearson has at his disposal and it is also worth noting that just because a team gets relegated, it doesn't automatically mean they will bounce back (as we found out to our cost!!). Here was his team from recently when people were moaning that he would only play older players who would have cost a fortune. When you consider the number of loanees, frees and youngsters then maybe you might want to reconsider your view that he is using the same players as last season. Here's his side today: 4 loanees 11 of the squad are 23 or under (7 are 20 or under) Martin - 23 (on loan) Gilbert - 21 (on loan) Morrison - 20 (new in) Hobbs - 20 (on loan) Berner - 31 (new in) Oakley - 31 Andy King - 20 Cleverley - 19 (on loan) Dyer - 26 (new in) Fryatt - 22 Howard - 32 Subs: Pentney - No age or data (but young) Chambers - 18 Gradel - 21 Mattock - 18 Dickov - 134

So that's: Charlton (H) Watford (A) Wolves (A) Palace (H) in 10 days. I think we could know at the end of those games whether we're down or not.

Stick to Tim then if he gives you more fun. Mwah :smt008.

Came through Wolves Youth Set Up (although I don't think he made a first team appearance), so can't really include him (PS plus as you've just said, he isn't playing anymore). We haven't been that good on keepers, although it's not really a position a player can grow into as you're straight in at the deep end, so imagine that's why we probably just bought them all in. The ones I can think of Granger, Poke etc only ever stepped in as an emergency on the odd occasion.

Have to say McDonald gets my vote as well, but would also accept that it is hard to judge him playing in that league.

Tim really will be upset, I just hope he doesn't see this thread (quick, Mods delete it) LOL.

I don't doubt that for one minute. But the point at hand was not the behaviour of Crouch, Chorley, Lawrie et al, instead we were discussing as to whether Lowe had managed the PR well since his return and one point against this was his performance at the AGM. We were discussing whether Lowe's performance at the AGM was a PR success or a PR failure, and my conjecture was that it was very much a failure. Now if others want to debate their bahaviour etc., then that's fine by me, and my opinion is that it was also found wanting, but let's not get distracted from this thread which was about Lowe's mistakes.

You're right. We signed him at 18 and he had already played 5 times for Torquay, so probably not fair to include him.

If you're back to stalking me, then me old mucker Tim will be upset. He much prefers you as his pet (I've got Frank you see). I think you can only do ten smilies (and i'll let Tim give you those) LOL.

Which brings us right back to the beginning of the argument (which has been somewhat lost by all the diversions), that one example of where Lowe has handled the PR poorly since his return, I think Jonah is the only poster who would argue that Lowe's performance at the AGM was anything other than poor PR.

I imagine that Burley's record was better than D&G's, but Pearson came in after both of them (and Burley towards the end appeared to had lost it big time) and he had to pick up the pieces. In fact by confirming D&G's record was worse, then it actually makes the halting of the slide by Pearson all the more impressive. Not world beating standard, but certainly a good job addressing a very worrying slide. He did what he had to do. His job was judged at the end of the season and he had us 20th, a position he inherited, but a position that he inherited after we had slid down the table. Wotte on the other hand has a different job (and a different context). He has to arrest the decline and then lead us up the table. The worry for me is not only is that a abig ask, but he was also a part of the problem that got us there in the first place.

Behave yourself you fool. You're the one on this thread accusing me of some "subtle" PR attack against Lowe, which is patently not the case, so please forgive me if I give you a broadside for being a ****** and accusing me of something that had never crossed my mind. I know what I posted, I know why I popsted it and in this instance your attempt at second guessing is wide of the mark and paranoid.

I'm not sure how you get that he was Englands Best Young Manager out of those stats. Maybe better than what went before or after him, but it is one large jump to go from stabilising a falling team and getting 1.23 ppg to calling him England's Best Young Manager. Methinks you're somewhat overegging his record there;) It looks brighter when you throw in his record at Leicester, but it would still be one hell of a leap.

you need to look at the reply in it's context nickh and not just throw in random comments IMHO. It was about it being a sign of Lowe's ability as a businessman, nit the merits or otherwise of the reverse takeover.

I've got Oakley, but you're quite right with Phillips. Not sure we can include Wise (unless of course you're putting him forward as manager). It's getting a bit stronger now and maybe it could hold it's own in the top flight: -------------------Flahavan------------------- Cranie---------Monk----Baird--------------Bale Walcott------Oakley-------Howard-------Bridge ------------McDonald-----Phillips---------- Still think we need another keeper (definitely weak), centre half (neither really Prem standard) and maybe centre mid (although Oaks did the business and Howard was being tapped up). There's definitely some talent in there though.