Frank's cousin

Anything wrong with only wanting to hear good things? Come on surely you appreciate that there is a different need re supporting 'evidence' when negative stuff is spouted? When there is Positive spin/BS published, you dont need evidence - because its positive and no harm is done if it turnes out to BS. But with negative rumours or gossip or 'ITK' posts, they have a greater impact on morale, what we believe etc - they can if spread and become urban myth do damage to the club or teh fans perception so its only nateral that anyone with a brain would want to see some hard evidence to validate it before believing it.

Is it really beyond the realms of open mindedness that NC would have communicated the 'plan' to replace Nige when we got the Prem with Nige at his appointment - that he was brought in to do a job and that was it? Cotese showed that he is not one for sentiment or platitudes - but is driven by the strategy he has devised - Many find it perplxing, some irrational, some unrealistic when he talks of his 'ambition', and all indications are that its not something a club of our size would ever be able to achieve.... but is it not better to try, give it a go and see what happens? Afterall, being 'happy' with survival every year is what makes a club a joke in my book, not daring to strive for better things. Adkins popularity means that the decision when it came was going to cause an erruption of emotions - but is it not worth giving the 'plan' a chance - by all means laugh at it if it fails, but surely its possible to look at this with an open mind?

I know its a bit rich coming from me... but 'anangram'?

Cry wolf syndrome Turks - you yourself have admitted to making things up to get a reaction, so how are folks meant to place any trust in what you say?

I think that is nail + head in one. Adkins has integrity , is a decent honest likelable bloke who we were proud of to have associated with our club - os it hurts all teh more, hich is fair enough. But have to agree wth the OP, the reaction is somewhat rediculous. In some respects the media are worse - Talk Sport are a classic example trotting out the 'disgusting' tagine, whilst only a few months ago taking the silver from the likes of Paddy Power to joke around the sack race in which Adkins was favourite - hypocrissy at its finest. The timing and the nature appear to present a damning picture of NC. But NC does himself and the club no favours by not publically comming out and discussing the decision. Was Adkins aways there to do one job which was promotion? Why keep him on until now if he was always going to be replaced? I can understand the need to give the new guy some part of the transfer window, but surely giving Adkins until th end of the seaosn would have been smarter? I can only assume that there has been a final breakdown in relationship, possibly over the current transfer window, maybe in the ay we attract players etc. Ultimately maybe even a victim of his own success, in that he achieved it so quickly and then at times has struggled as he gains he necessary experience? I just find it a shame though that fans are taking tehir frustration out on the new guy before he has even taken one session... that seems churlish at best and ignorant at worst.

I dont doubt that NC has been looking for someone new for some time - If anything the biggest surprize was NIge still being here at the start of the season - perfhaps a recognition that he had deserved a chance on the back of that glory. Thing is, I suspect now that Nige always knew his time would be limited - that he been brought in to do a job (hget us to the prem within 4 years), The momentum of promotion, some decent money and arguably a lesser standard of opposition than in other seaons saw us do that in in two - with Nige demonstrating clearly that with cohesion, attitude and team spirit, you can achieve more than as a bunch of often more talented individuals. But the plan was probably to always find someone new when we got to the 'promised land' yet in our eyes it seeems so unfair - especially since Nige was so well repected and liked by the fans. Its highly likely though that the planning that involved staff going to Spain would have been known to Nigel and whilst its sddens me greatly on an individual basis, I do think he knew that this would be inevitable, unless we had taken the prem by some miraculous storm. NC is not rules by sentiment, we all know that. He is driven by a trategy taht he believes will work and sentiment will not detract from it. That obviously has advantages but also the major disadvantage of apearing to lack a human touch etc. However, think suspecting a young Gazza of a hand in this probably taking it too far - I suspect that this is NCs show and he will have to live with the consequences of his decision should it not work out.

... but why are so many so vocal and angry when we lose, get relegated, have a **** side? Was the victimisation of Branfoot justified, if all we want is a club that cares and succes sand results is not important - maybe we should look at ourselves first before we start mud slinging - most fans want it both ways and when it suits them. Sorry, but for the majority it is about winning and most will forgive the 'morality' issues and forget if we have that success whatever we would like to think.... just on days like today all fans are suddenly angelic moral crusaders castigating the evil dictator...

Just my opinion... Question that you need to ask yourself is what to do want from football? What does it add to your life following a club? And what do you need from that club in order to keep that bond in place. The tribalism we often associate with it is still a relatively new concept (compared to the 150 years of the game) steming from the post 60s new affluence that meant the a generation stoped going to leave the 'kid's to literallly fight it out on the Terraces - that tribalism I think fuelled a greater, deeper sense of emotional ownership that was missing in many of the youth of those times - culturally significant, but it also generated what is in my opinin the darker nature of the affection for our clubs - you only have to look at our own fans responses when decisions have been made that fans disagree with from the public hatred towards Branfoot, 'hanging' lowe from the Itchen bridge - literally gallows humour but also symbolic, I would argue of an 'unhealthy' reliance emotionally on what is afterall is said and done a sport. That tribal emotional legacy is why so many feel uncomfortable what they call 'modern football', yet today's game is just a natural evolution of a game that has evolved throughout its lifetime, from the rattles and going to see the local neighbours when your club is away form home, through the 70s and 80s cage fest, to the 'sanitisation' of the 90s and the the corporate evolution of the power clubs fuelled by a global audience and no longer the local fan. Where it goes next who knows, but the reality is that it wont return to some 'halcion' vision... and anyway that 'ideal will differ for each generation anyway. The principles of 'taking part' are great for kids and exercise we do, but for professional sport and one that you support it has and always is about success no matter what we would like to think - otherwise why so angry and upset with Lowe and relegation? Why so happy with winning and promotion first from League 1 and then to the prem? The success and failure hits us emotionally, and I doubt many would be 'happy' with Adkins had we managed to lose a couple more games towards the end of last year and then gone out in the play offs - would 'success' really have not been that important then? So if we accept that the game is about success and that the competition is almost a closed shop, where does that leave a club like saints? We had fans crying, screaming at Lowe to show some ambition, yet when the club does (in Cortese's own way), seemingly not happy with our 'struggle' we seem to fall back on the virtues of loyalty and 'niceness' and how business and business attitudes have ruined the experience? I believe you can have both and maybe had Marcus still been here, to counter NCs driven nature, we may have seen a different, less agressive and dictatorial approach, but he is not and we are where we are. Would we really be happy to with a more 'morally correct' club that appeared happy drifting in the CCC? Its easy to wish and say we should have both, but the reality is we have NC who is doing it his way. We might not like it, but whilst its works, can re really complain that much? The situation is never helped by a media that thrives on controversy - the same media that is now so 'morally' straight castigating NC, that enjoys the latest sack race betting at the start of the season, the hypocrissy without shame is startling, but fans dont like it when the club is portrayed so negatively, and this feeds the emotional rhetoric. All in all, these sorts of days are never easy, but they are common these days and how we respond as fans to the new guy will say just as much about us a club as the way we reponded towards today's news. Work out what you get from football, then decide whether its still for you, but dont expect it to change.

Time will tell whether its seen as a bold brave move that led to success or an utter failure/mistake by the man in charge. Guted for Nige as well, but we have two choices - hand wringing protesting misery that helps no one, or get behind the new man and give him the chance to see what he can do.

Ok Cards on the table. Cortese may not be a very nice person - h may be making decsions I would not like and act in a manner that i would find hard to work with. As you say, no one was in the room, no one has direct evidence, but there are plenty of hints. On the flip side you have Marcus, someone who most would agree seemed a fair, and decent man... who trusted NC and was also his friend - this seems at odds with the rumours from within the club? This is something I dont get. It may be that NC was Marcus' foil and without marcus reigning him in there is something missing, I dont know,and we probably never will. I am not perfect but would imagine I would be REWARDING Adkins for what he has achieved right now, not dismissing him. I also believe in loyalty and continuity so already you can see I am at odds with NC on this one. BUT the reason why I am happy in my job and DONT want to go much higher is that in certain positions it is necessary to make decsions that are right for the buisness but not right from a fair or human angle. MOst would agree taht to be successful in any buisness (and like oit or not football is a business) you need people who are willing to make decisions for the business even at the expense of what we would all probably agree is fair or nice. I dont belive this was a snap decision. I also believe, although have NO eveidence that Nigel was aware of teh longer term strategy - many picked up on his remarks post Cov and read alot into them - some of the same who now dsmiss them. I was the opposite way round - I dismissed them then, but now with hinsight think there was more to it. I dont expect anyone to be happy with the decsion, and I am saddened by Nige leaving. but this does not mean the ship is crumbling or warrant some of the ridiculous suggestions of protest or whatever some are coming out with. The hand wringing nonsence etc. Time will judge NC on what he achieves whilst he is here - some will never have any faith or trust in him and most wont like him, but that is not his job. His job is to deliver results - if thsi change does that he will have done his job, if it fails then he has failed.

You taking the **** out of my **** poor typing... shame on you both;)

Ok. The reason I would NOT have sacked him is precisely because of those reasons you suggest - he has achieved and If I were running the club I would want to see what he could achieve over a longer period of time. BUT. I also acknowledge that I would come in for some pretty serious flack if were relegated under adkins and then kept him on as we drifted in mid table CCC, with the crowd baying for me or him to go... Fans are fickle like that. The voice is now in full flow criticising the lack of loyalty, yet fans are equally quick at looking for firing when its not going well. That IS football. I may not like it, you may not like it, but huffing and puffing and publically emoting like some dim wannabe on reality TV aint going to change it. Secondly as 100% of thsoe posting on here, our knowledge of what was behind the decsion is limited, yet most seem perfectly happy to spout the bile and hatred without that knowledge. I am not.

Showing emotion is not a bad thing. Showing the level of hatred over what is a decision that you dont agree with without knowing the reasons behind it is waht I am having a 'pop' at sweetie

You are so right - are you clairvoyant. Some of you are obviously a bit dim - mistaking emotion and anger for passion and concern - you seem to fail to grasp that you can disagree, be concerned about decisions without all the superfluous public emoting and infantile bile that so many of you seem to spout. You forget that bile spouting which you seem to think is 'passion' is a relatively NEW part of football crowds - pre 70s it was not there -s so go back to school and you might realise that football passion is not all about anger and bitterness and hatred, but for the first 100 years was about respect.

Feck me if Arguing on line were an olympic event mate you'd be in the squad at least, not necessarily a medal contender but you'd get to take part - youd have to extract Hypo form the ring pice first though as am sure there would be rules about the doubles... Anyway - you hav now asked a different question - do I back the chairman's decision? Different form 'do I agree with it or not'? Subtle but important diffrence as I am merely a fan so my opinion on it makes feck all difference to the success or otherwise of the club, NO I would not have gotten rid of Adkins either now or even had we been relegated - as you all know that has always been my opinion and I stand by. But I dont have to make it. NC did based on what I assume is a long term plan and he has his reasons. I dont know what they are so wont presume he did it becaus ehe is a cant or because he is imcompetent - because SO FAR his decsions have seenm us progress as a club, and I simply dont know him personally so cant judge whether he is a cant or not.

Feck off NO Surrender! Been surrounded by plenty of pussies in my time, so not something I cant handle

Turkish, as fun as it probably is for you to keep banging the same drum, and I know you have an inexhaustable supply of energy when it comes to this sort of thing, surely you can see I answered your question. If I would not do it, what do you think that means?

Yes darling, but I feel better now knowing you are there to comfort me.

Only thing you need for sitting on the fence is a bit of balnace mate. Frankly, worring about whether Cortese is nice or not is not really that important - its whether his decsions no matter how rthless they appear to those without teh insider knowledge work out or not - seriously its that simple

Wondered how long it would take you to crawl out of Turkish's backside to join in here. I already stated I would have NOT made that decision, read into that what you will. You guys make enough assumptions on folks opinions, without letting actual ones get in the way.

CB Fry self apointed king of the miserable inane angry club making a statement with no factual accuracy whatsoever... CB Fry you never dissappoint, but please dont be so presumptious when interpreting opinions. You are just making things up agian to suit your usual talentless atempts and WUM humour.

Simple answer? Dont know. dont have the benefit of foresight - we stay up and start to be more consistant it will be inspired, we go down, relegated and feck it up then clearly a woeful one.

Why, because I dont conform to the 'uber fan, must be over emotional model' that the self appointed fan police insist on? Jeez, I thought it was a free country where opinions can be varied and expressed, yet it seems that in football you have to emote publically at Niges sacking, call the chairman names, act like a child and wave hankies in a spanish protest agains a Swiss Italian Chairman'... back in the real world, you accept it, and move on, get on with life most of which is far more serious and important.

Jeeez - someone is angry... how old are you? 12? You need to get a feckin grip if this is making you so tired an emotional.

MOre complex than that questio - or it should be. 1. Was Nigel capable of ensuring we avoided relegation? Yes in IMHO he was 2. Did NIgel have the talent to be a first rate manager some day? Yes, I believ ewith experience he will become one 3. Do you think he could learn rapidly enough to keep pace with the clubs ambition? Don't know - Cortse obviously thinks not 4. Do you think NIge was aware that he would be replaced when we got to the prem? Yes, which is why he was on a downer post Cov 5. The timing is awful no? difficult, its certainly not ideal, but if replacing a manager mid season then some part of the transfer window open is probably essential 6. BUt Cortese is acting like a bastard surely, Nige has given us so much? It appears a ruthless decsion, and I like everyone am saddened at seeing Nige go. I guess the pace of change and the way football is, means that its not a shocking decision. 7. But I asked a simple question, do you agree with the decision? - answer FFS. Ok Would I have done it? NO. BUt that does not make Cortse a bad man, merly one who was prepared to make it in what he believes to be in the best the interests of the club - time will tell whether he was right to make it.