coalman

As Albert Einstein once said "bravery is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

It's clearly set up for a goal out of nowhere then another. Then Saints to grab one in injury time. 4-1 to Wolves

60 minutes in. 0 shots on target. We're playing like a team protecting a 2 goal lead.

The on field decision was a goal. Then it was reversed by VAR in both cases. In one case we benefited from that (giveth) in another we didn't (taketh away).

The VAR giveth and the VAR taketh away. On the plus side at least we haven't folded after the decision.

Which would be great if he was a winger.

That is not a team selection that screams goal scoring potential. Well, if you discount chances given up near our box.

History tells us Wolves will sit back and then nick a winner from us.

True, but he can say he was really happy about the run he made, position he took up and finish for the goal. He could praise his tracking back. He could also say how he's working with Armstrong to add to his game to be more effective out wide.

Curious to know why it's the players not being good enough rather than the manager failing to coach them properly? And if the players aren't good enough and the manager knows this then why is the manager trying to play that way?

To be fair, only scoring 1 goal against Saints is going to lead to scar tissue. Imagine how Everton are going to be this weekend. We've basically relegated them.

Which is also why we have the ability to copy/paste text on computers

Thanks for the thoughtful answer @RTW Saint. I don't think we're on opposite sides of the argument at all though it is easy to turn the Russell Martin conversation into polarised opinions. I think that possession football is the basis for any team that wants to survive in the Premier League. Hughes, Ralph (at the end and in patches), Jones and Selles all gave the ball away too cheaply and invited pressure. My first problem with Martin is his approach to possession football. For me it's the clarifying questions you ask about it - for example - When should we play short passes? Right now it feels like the answer to that is "almost all the time". - When should we not play short passes? I'm not sure we have a good answer for this. There are many times during a game where a player has space to turn but plays the ball back to goal into pressure. We wind up wasting some really good passages of play. - How should we play short passes? To take the weekend's game as an example - our passing was slow. By the time the ball arrived at the player, there was someone there closing them down. The player receiving the ball rarely took it and moved so they weren't creating space. The attackers could easily predict not only where it was going next but also next after that. This lack of zip put our players under unnecessary pressure. - When should we play longer passes? Our attackers make lots of good runs in behind and in Archer we've got a genuinely pacy forward to take advantage of this but we don't make use of him enough that way. When we play a ball into space for Archer the other team is running backwards towards their own goal and under pressure. - How can we move the ball forward quickly when we regain possession? If you look at the top teams in the Premier League they break really fast which is how they create a lot of their chances. We don't do this enough in my opinion. When we do we can really stretch teams and create chances. We did it much more last season than we are this season. When we do it we look good. - How can we stretch teams? Our wide players need to be able to commit their man and beat them. Not necessarily all the time but if we simple top and pass it back every time then we give our opponents time to recover their shape which makes crossing the ball less effective. Right now our passing doesn't stretch our opponents. This leads to them being able to commit more men forward to press us in dangerous areas. It also means teams can set up narrow and stop us playing through them because they know we aren't getting the byline any time soon. - Where do we want to be making our possession based mistakes? I would suggest near our opponents penalty area (despite the number of corner breakaway goals we concede) If we are playing possession we want it to be in our opponents halves as much as possible. Our possession style winds up with possession in the areas we least want to lose the ball in too much. A manager's job is to teach the players how to think about this during games so they can make good decisions. Our players are not making good decisions. Passing is about moving the ball without thinking beyond the next pass in our team or being aware when we have space. We've complained for some time our players aren't vocal enough. Right now "bravery" seems to be about moving it to the next person and hoping they do something with it until we run out of road. The second problem I have with Martin is our defending. Under Poch, Koeman and Ralph we worked hard to get the ball back. Which led to us creating possession at dangerous areas. Under Martin we're too passive so when we lose the ball we're making it too easy for teams to pass through our midfield and get over the halfway line. Throw in our inability to defend against set pieces and corners and we almost need 80% possession because we aren't good without the ball. Again, a manager's job is to coach the team to defend as a unit. The last, and possibly the scariest, problem I have with Martin is his intransigence. Whenever I hear language like "we just need to keep doing what we're doing" or "we were unlucky" I die a little on the inside. That's the language people use when they aren't learning. And Martin really needs to learn and adapt if he is going to have any chance of success in the Premier League. Pep said some lovely things about us but that shows the difference in mentality - Pep believes he can learn something from every manager he plays no matter what the result. He is never happy with where he is or thinks he's the finished article. Russ seems to just want everyone to tell him how pure his football is and gets defensive when he gets asked the questions I've posed above. I get what you say about the Swansea games last year but the trouble is what happens when it doesn't work? Right now the answer seems to be keep doing more of the same. I honestly believe we have the players to survive in this league. I think that there are elements to our passing that are really good and are something we could build on and that Martin has coached players who couldn't string 3 passes together into something much more cohesive. However, I don't think we have a manager who is either willing or capable to take what he has and evolve. I don't think he has good answers for the questions I posed above and that is holding him and the team back from fulfilling their potential and will prevent Martin from succeeding at this level.

I'm no coach (at least for football) and I may well be a moron but I do have some questions. If we don't have the players to play like City should we be trying to? Surely the manager's job is to get the best results with the players they have? How can possession be a measure of defensive solidity if it regularly leads to clear goal scoring opportunities for the other team and giving them possession in dangerous areas of the pitch? When was it said that Russell Martin's remit was to establish Saints as a Premier League within 3 seasons? Top teams also cross the ball into the box a lot - why aren't we doing that?

Though the idea of playing Manning as a winger is somewhat horrifying. Admittedly less horrifying that asking him to mark a pacy winger.

There are some really admirable parts to Armstrong's game. He's incredibly hard working - will run all day for the team. He's good at picking up scraps and willing to have a pop at goal. He's scored some crackers and seems to have a good sense for getting to the second ball in the opposition box. There are also some parts of his game that don't seem suited to the Premier League. He gets bullied off the ball too often so he can't play through the middle. When you put him out wide you're going to get the odd goal but he's not great at crossing the ball and is never going to beat his man - so the opposition know he'll always stop, turn and pass it back. He also has a tendency to shoot when there are better options available. That being said - I don't think any attacking player is going to look good in our system right now because the players that see the ball the most are our goalkeepers and centre backs and we build so slowly that our attackers are always going to be outnumbered by teams that have plenty of time to regain their shape. So players are going to be feeding on scraps.

Let's not forget Gav falling on his arse and gifting them a goal. Also, lovely to see a Saints player skinning his man and stretching play rather than stopping, turning ponderously and passing backwards.

If we start moving the ball with some zip and purpose I fancy our chances. I wouldn't be averse to cutting out some of the self harm from our gameplay too.

Was nice to have a lot of things go in our favour for once. Can we have that referee every week? Hopefully the win and clean sheet is something we can build on. My god it's hard watching us slowly trundle the ball about though. And keeping passing back into dangerous areas when there's a chance to break. We had so much more zip when Dibling came on, well briefly.

How is it only 4 minutes?

That never looked off side. Did they put the line on the wrong attacker?

Our passing is like a game of hot potato.

Is that Saints fading at the end of the game again?

Should've gone for that

Our passing has more zip since Dibling came on