coalman

It's not just the result. It's hearing Carragher's one sided commentary sink into quiet despair.

When you put it like that - maybe we should stay in the Championship 😉

I would say a combination of squad too bloated with loans. Some poor recruitment and a lack of faith. So a bit of everything really. The problem is we've made much of our model to attract the academy stars from big clubs who haven't got a pathway into their first teams. And, our business model is based on buying, developing and selling these players for a profit. Not every player is going to be Lavia or Livramento but if they look at Saints and think "I'm not going there because they manager doesn't trust the likes of Charles, Dibling, Amo-Ameyaw and Meghoma" then they're just going to take the most lucrative offer on the table. Not every young player will work out. But, right now I'd be looking at that team and bench and thinking the manager doesn't trust younger players. When we look back at this season I think we'll have missed a real opportunity to nurture some really talented players. Irrespective of whether we are promoted our not. And, if we're not promoted we probably aren't going to have a choice but to throw those younger players onto the pitch, given the scale of the exodus we'll be facing. And, as you say, if not this season then when?

One could argue that, goals aside, Rothwell hasn't been exactly consistent in that role. He's looked suspect as a midfielder until he gets into the box where his finishing has been excellent. Same goes for Brooks who has had some nice touches but seems to have unsettled our system. Stu is also going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment. Manning was excellent yesterday but had previously been inconsistent. With our other loanees - THB has been immense at CB, Downes has been the same in DM and Fraser has given us a real direct cutting edge whenever he's come on. Whilst we don't know what's going through Martin's head or how hes' worked together with Wilcox in bringing in players. There does seem to be a focus on midfielders who can attack to the point of unbalancing the side. Whether that's Wilcox or Martin having gone to Wilcox and saying "I want more attacking midfielders" we'll never know. We do know Martin picks the side and the bench would indicate he's focused on attacking options to the exclusion of covering other positions.

Totally agree. He may not have arrived as the finished article but he's not far from it and he's not getting there unless we give him minutes on the pitch to improve. Yesterday's bench had 3 wingers, 2 attack minded midfielders and 1 attacker on it. There was no way all of those were going to come on and we didn't have cover for a key position of the tactical ability to shore up the midfield once they realised they could overrun it. I'm not counting moving Jack Stephens into midfield as a viable option. I guess part of the problem is we have so many loanees in attacking midfield positions - Fraser, Brooks, Rothwell - that he's hell bent on juggling minutes for. This is also particularly harsh on Edozie who has done nothing wrong yet finds himself behind the three of them. To top that off he also seems to want to juggle in Sulemana who has shown nothing this season. As well as lacking defensive options in midfield and leaving us open to conceding goals it's also getting in the way of developing upcoming talents like Dibling and Amo-Ameyaw. We didn't have a single player on the bench from the youth teams yesterday - which we were doing so well during our unbeaten run. Neither of them have let us down when they've come on and they really deserve a pathway into the first team.

Stop trying to make me your forum wife. It's not going to happen

Your wife sounds wise beyond measure

There's a difference between someone being stupid and someone doing stupid things. No one is inherently stupid or clever. It's entirely possible for Russ to do both clever things and stupid things. The post you're replying to said that continuing with something that wasn't working was stupid - which is doing a stupid thing. Have to say you're making a rod for your own back on this forum by continuing to escalate this way whenever someone disagrees with something Russell Martin decides to do.

I thought they pressed intelligently too. They didn't go after the player with the ball - they chased after the obvious pass from that player.

What a ride. And mostly not in a good way after we went 2-0 up until right at the end. Please please please - Play Bednarek and THB in central defence - Have a DM on the bench - Play Fraser/Edozie over Brooks - Never play Jack Stephens in a holding midfield role ever again Have to say Manning added something when he came on. Aribo and Downes should be the first two names in midfield. Stu is having a rough patch. Che is lethal from a yard.

We've made the playoffs for sure now.

Goal. Never in doubt. Downes you hero

He's just rotating in his midfielders

2-2 low to Baz's left

Great block by Bedders

Fraser offside. Great finish though

Mara is more aerodynamically efficient at least. Stephens gets his midfield libero role.

Let's get Rothwell on to give them the run of midfield.

It's not like their right winger is their most threatening player or anything.

Manning on to tighten up in defence.

Bring out the banjo

Then we break and Adams slices it well wide

THB clears off the line. Free headers all round

Asprilla

Canem cacas ad duo nil