pap

That is a long way from evidence of fitting up.

That's not remotely reasonable, unless you're using the fact that no-one eventually got charged as your evidence. I remember reading articles from the time. I saw the smears against the PJ, the attempts to make them look like keystone cops - but beyond vague and tired accusations of the Portuguese plod being feckless Mediterranean types looking for an instant result, I never saw anything more concrete. Are you saying that there is evidence that the PJ tried to frame the McCanns? Interesting question. I think you have a valid technical point. At that point, the Portuguese cops had her well in the frame for knowing something; most of the questions centre on discrepancies or gaps in her initial accounts, a bit of background knowledge and her reactions to the sniffer dog evidence. Being cynical about those questions, I'd say that a few of them were designed to make her look bad. The information about timing, search parties, medical conditions and/or medication is all directly relevant to the search. The rest is clearly geared at resolving the differences in her accounts and catching her out. There's a "but" after the next quote. Even if you knew you were innocent and had the heavyweight support of your government back home? Under those circumstances, you'd have a degree of confidence that there would not be any evidence on you. Even if PC Johnny Foreigner were thinking of fitting you up, the degree of support and scrutiny would make it difficult to stick. Your main problem isn't being accused. It's that no-one is out searching. If it were me, I'd answer all of those questions to get it out of the way and re-focus efforts on a search, even at the risk of getting fitted up. To aintforever's earlier point about the relevance of the questions to the search, while few were directly relevant - the PJ were unlikely to resume searching when Kate was being questioned as an arguido in custody, so in that sense, they're all relevant.

Whatever charges the PJ decided to bring after the outcome of a completed investigation. I agree with you that the status quo makes the precise charge difficult to find. However, in other cases where kids are missing and death is a possibility, investigators will typically work until they know one what the charge is and whether a case can be brought to trial. The case files show that the both the investigation was deliberately hampered throughout, especially when it came to questions that may implicate the McCanns. As a parent, I still can't get past Kate's refusal to answer those 48 questions. I'm not trying to assert that of proof of anything, just that I do not understand the decision to choose self-preservation over information that could save her child's life.

Precisely, and in line with the team of detectives that decided to name them as arguidos. The usual process for determining guilt or innocence was avoided. This is why I don't understand the implicit resistance to a trial from those that assure us there is no evidence. Over 10m of taxpayers money has been spent on an investigation that has yielded nowt. Cost can no longer be a consideration.

No definitely not, despite being a spunky performance ? Interesting you mention Man City. We genuinely looked like a top four team with tricky players that pass the ball about in the opponent's six yard box with near impunity. Some of the passing was glorious, as was some of the touches used to being things under control. Everybody's least favourite owl shaped England manager will look unwise on MOTD tonight. Clyne was superb at times. Remember seeing him bring a Hollywood ball under control, taking it past his man and bursting forward. Saw a bunch of 10 year old nippers walking along Mount Pleasant singing Oh When The Saints on my way to the Farmhouse. Couldn't help feeling that this season may be crucial in our long term future. Eight bloody nil and top of the MOTD bill. I'm predicting that the pundits are going to give us slightly more than a patronising pat on the head. What junior glory hunter is realistically going to stick the "Saints are sh!t" insult with a clean landing on Monday's school yards? How many of those juniors are thinking of switching allegiance? Success this season will be the foundation of the future fan base. Alright, it's only Sunderland, but it was eight nil, and while it might not win us a trophy, no Saints fan in St Mary's had to hunt for glory today. Magnificent.

Just Googled Premier League, and switched to news view. It's glorious. We are hot sh!t.

Utterly superb. Best game I've ever been to .

You cannot even support that accusation. Still libel.

You have just called me a Holocaust denier by association. I defy you to produce evidence, anywhere, to support that allegation. Reduced to libellous name calling. Top stuff.

I've left the crap out at the top but I think this is probably libel. I know you can't justify these claims, so it's just unsubstantiated defamation. Congrats on that.

You have narrowed the scenario based on the accounts of Kate McCann and David Payne. Your timeline depends on their statements being true. They contradict each other, Payne's statement is full of hesitation, and overdone assurances that everything was fine with the kids. Those accounts would fold under cross examination, so I don't think your request for a version of events within your timeline is reasonable. David Payne is the last person other than the McCanns themselves to have seen Madeleine McCann alive. Read the Gaspars' statement on him and let us know whether you think his statements are reliable. The timeline you want depends on his words. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

Quite interesting. This is about more than cruise ships; it's an expansion of transport capacity across the board. The Mersey Gateway Bridge is one of the infrastructure projects being worked on. The airport is also getting expanded; runway extensions will allow it to do long haul. Direct links to deep sea southern ports, plus a concerted effort to improve the Liverpool to Manchester corridor and a doubling of container capacity. Exciting times for the region.

That's ok. Tim suggested our owner would have done similar, because he's classy. The ol' "everyone else was doing 90mph" defence.

Who knows? They use the same tactics as disinfo people, tho'. All of their contributions are covered on that link. It would be nice if they were getting paid though, if only for them.

You really want to do this again? 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Seen it all before, guv. Using disputed points to disprove disputed points. Faux cluelessness. Requests for a theory. http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm The above is well worth a re-review.

Don't indulge it, sadoldgit. It's not interested in your opinion. It just wants to tie you up in speculation and conjecture to give its more intelligent mates some ammunition.

Dammit. Undone by a love of alliteration!

Yeah, I get that a lot. So sensible on other issues. Shining example of care in the community, me.

Sorry mate, but that's nonsense. Insults are always returned, never served. If someone decides they want to interact at that level, that level is what they'll get back. This thread alone shows that it is the four trolls that introduce other conspiracies to try and prove their points. Your words are undone by the ones that precede it, sir. And yes, others have disagreed with me - but it's the same four people who hound these types of threads using bully boy tactics to silence dissent. When that doesn't work, they accuse you of narcissism, make quips about your appearance despite having no rational corporeal basis for doing so and suggesting mental maladies of some kind. F**k them all, I say. They've overdone it. They're done.

Did you all PM each other or something? That relentless nature thing goes both ways. The same people relentlessly try to stifle the debate by smearing, changing subject, attacking posters. Look how they've attempted to ruin this one. It's dishonest, it puts people off from posting, but unfortunately, it's what we've come to expect. They doth protest too much.

To the four regular trolls that use the same old tactics. Get me some better Stonecutters. These ones are sh!t.

I'm not going to indulge your desperate attempts to change the subject here. There's a time and a place. Go back to the thread you left out of decency. This is a thread about the McCanns.

Why is this relevant to this discussion? Especially when you said you weren't going to discuss it anymore? This is a thread about the McCanns, and evidently, further evidence of your intellectual dishonesty. If you're genuinely interested in those events, why not return to the thread you left out of decency? What a fkn fall from grace. Do you remember when you used to be respected around these parts? You're not even feared anymore. Done up by a mush from the council estates.

I've been away for much of this week, so many thanks to trousers for starting the thread Lord Freud has scored a gratuitous own goal here. Consistent with many Tory gaffes, any logic in the point is dwarfed by the cruel way in which sentiments are expressed. There are ways to acknowledge the barrier of entry for disabled people without suggesting that they earn £2 an hour, whether that's grants for better access, or subsidies to employers. The debate is well worth having, if there is a genuine problem in getting disabled people into work. Problem is, Freud's assessment is another nasty implementation which shows how out of touch the Conservatives are. Before anyone starts, I left the Labour Party a couple of weeks ago. I've got no time for them either.