The Kraken

Rob Jones‏@msnsportrob Hoping the Adkins rumours are just that, rumours. It would be a travesty. He’s done wonders there.

Yep, heard about that. Hardly surprising. I really worry who on earth we could/would get as manager if NA goes. Its like when Burley left; most people knew he was not up to the job, there just wasn't an obvious replacement to come straight in. As a consequence we lurched from mid-table to staying up on the last day. If NA goes a ready made replacement has to be available and primed to come straight in.

The question is; do they?

Just looking at stadium size, fanbase, and infrastructure. We're (potentially) alot better off than many clubs in this division. And much worse off than the big clubs.

I see them differently. Are we capable of being a regular PL side? Absolutely. Do we have the infrastructure to do it? Of course. We're not good enough to win this league, and I predict never will be in my lifetime. Finsishing top 4 once would be an incredible success. Finishing in the European spots, in time, a fairly realistic ambition for the odd season. Given our resources, we should never really be relegated, and should always hover around mid-table; our default finsihing position is probably anywhere between 8th and 12th. Do I want that? No, not really. I'd rather prioritise some cup success, get relegated every now and then, get promoted every now and then. Ideally win the Championship every year and decline promotion, but that's never going to happen. Football is about having a laugh IMO, whatever division we're in, 27 years in the top flight before and we did f*ck all with it. That's my point, anyway, the PL is bland and overpriced.

Well I don't really understand that, but ok, lets leave it there. On the second point we can finally agree. I don't like the PL; but despite that we are without doubt capable of establishing ourselves in this division, and capable of consistently being a mid-table side. If that's our realistic aim, count me out, taking huge success from finishing 9th isn't really for me. Neither is the lack of 3pm games, the prices, the over-rated hype and all that. But that's a completely discussion.

Ah no, I've got it now. Yes. It was where you said this bit, wasn't it: "We have a PL-representative stadium, and a competitve academy. The rest of the infrastrucutre and operation is championship level at best. Les Reed is heading up our scouting network, FFS. I'd rather have Lord Baden Powell, and hes dead". I must admit, I must have been confused. Since you started off this thread by saying: "This isnt a quality issue about players, executive management, team manager. Even if we bought Messi, Ronaldo and got Guardiola in, I still would think the same." Les Is "executive management", you see. He is an Exec Director. so I'm a bit confused why it isn't a quality issue about executive management, but then it is.

Sorry, what? I was directly responding to your post here: Where did you mention operation in that? i must really not be paying attention, as I can't see it even now.

That would be an entirely fair supposition IMO.

The people? I don't get what you mean. if you mean the players; I disagree, I think we should have enough ability to stay up. Les Reed and the manager; that's another story and I've come around to the thinking they need to be replaced with PL quality. Which our infrastructure would quite easily allow us to do. Decision making; well that's not really an infrastructure is it? And goes back to people. Who can easily be replaced. Scouting? What are you saying here; that the extent of our scouting network is Championship level? That the players we've brought in haven't been fit for purpose? Our problem with transfers this summer was that we neglected to strengthen in the right areas; the players we did bring in are largely of PL quality. Guly must-play clause??!! Really?? Where was this clause when he didn't make the 18 against Arsenal? or when he made the bench but didn't come on against Villa and Everton? Delving into wanton speculation tehre I feel.

No no, I'll allow you that. If nothing else, to get this reactionary thread somewhere close to track. here you go, if you want to stand by what you said (if you don't, just carry on ignoring it). Its fairly clear we have a stadium of PL quality and size, a training ground of PL quality and size (and getting better) and a stunningly good academy. Given that, What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground, and our academy (which I'd hazard a guess are pretty important things when considering if a club's infrastructure is of PL level).

Ha ha ha!! Mr Angry strikes again! What was it you said? Oh yes. "Why cant you discuss sensibly without all the inflammatory rubbish?" So sadly lacking in self-awareness.

I'm glad you agree you were wrong.

I amended it. You misunderstood my point completely. I said our time in the PL at St. Mary's, when we moved from the Dell and experienced a massive upturn in resources available, and finished in the mid-table positions listed. Your whole concept is massively flawed in fact.

Take a look in the mirror. You may not think it; I wholeheartedly think it is. You've entirely misunderstood my point. I referred to our time at St. Mary's when we were in the PL; when the resources available to us as a club took a massive upturn from previously at the Dell. What have the top teams got to do with it? you said we're not a PL club; yet we're the 7th highest spenders in Europe. What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground,a nd our academy.

What's even funnier is the managers they think they'll attract. Various POL f*ckwits suggesting the likes of Owen Coyle, Harry Redknapp, Gordon Strachan, Avram Grant, Nigel Adkins and David James should be in the frame. All of those are supposedly feasible on equivalent wages to Appy's current £2K per week.

Typical ignorant rubbish. At the Dell we didn't have the resources. We do at St. Mary's. From 2000 onwards into our time at St. Mary's until we got relegated we finished 10th, 11th, 8th and 12th, with attendances around the top 10 or 12 clubs in the division. A brilliant academy and excellent facilities all round. "Don't have the infrastructure"? Clueless. Utterly clueless.

We only let in 2 goals; the goals conceded per game average will have come down.

One of the good things you can say about Cortese is that he seems (so far) to have an eye for a manager. He instantly binned out Mark Wotte. Good call. He brought in Pardew: Great call. He brought in Nigel Adkins: Up to this season, great call. Also, the whole Football Development Centre and Director of Football model is a good one that I subscribe to; it gives long term stability and thinking to a club even if they lose/dispense with the services of the first team manager. I'm just unsure about the wisdom of having Les Reed as the kingmaker, and what I see as too minimal an input from the current manager into certain operations such as transfers.

The way he handled external press photographers was a great example of how arrogant and naive he is to the nuances of English football. An absolutely terrible business decision, and one which he was at pains to back down from very quickly. Trumpetting to all and sundry that we would be signing up a sponsorship deal with a global marque (after missing out on onw whole season of any shirt sponsorship revenue at all). Ending up with a local IT firm who specialise in b2b operations. Corporate areas and hospitality; well that speaks for itself. Spat with the local media, thereby missing out on free marketing to a huge daily audience. Overseeing an absolute shambles in the ticket office since takeover, a number ofnew staff in and subsequently out, its either a managerial problem or a recruitment problem. Do we need to go on much more? Cortese has been a successful chairman; he's not shown he has the nous to be a hugely successful businessman.

Preditcably, its actually a bit of both. Fox is a poor defensive full back, and his worst trait is standing off wingers and allowing them to cross. That said he's also been blamed for some stuff that hasn't been entirely his fault, such as Lallana being caught miles out of position and Fox having two players to mark. He's not quite good enough for the Premier league, but too often he's being asked to do the work of 2, so its no surprise he looks so far out of his depth. I'd suggest though that Luke Shaw's breif flirtation today is perhaps a precursor to a full appearance against Swansea on Saturday.

Still too lightweight in midfield; IMO we need a proper midfield 3 of Schneiderlin, Cork and Davis/JWP. Anything less just gets outmuscled and overrun too easily, and the extra man would allow a touch more defensive cover. Also, Jos Hooiveld shouldn't be anywhere near a Premier League first team.

If this message board (or indeed the internet) had been as prominent back in Benali's playing days, don't worry about it, Benali would have been the whipping boy.

Peacey; there really isn't a lot of evidence to back this up. This season aside he has been a successful football chairman. His business skills within the commercial sides of our operations are, however, very much in doubt (in some quarters at least).

He's certainly gone up in a lot of people's estimations! During the summer I stated that I thought cork was a better and more important player for us than Schneiderlin is; lets just say it was a very minority view and I was assured we wouldn't miss him with MS and Davis in the middle. Times, they are a changing.