The Kraken

35 appearances; 5 goals. OK, I'll fully accept that the majority of his appearances were from the bench, but 1 goal in 7 is far from exceptional for an attacking player. For me Papa was a bit of a let down; his complete inability to comprehend the offside rule was at first humourous but before too long completely frustrating, and for me summed him up as player. I agree with you that he's a striker rather than a winger, and in that respect I'd much rather have either Barnard or Connolly up front than Waigo. Add in that we're supposed to be looking for a Lambert backup and he'd be looking at the role of 5th striker, which is not a sensisble transfer policy, so I'd now be very surprised if he did come, and a little disappointed as it would mean he was earmarked for that RM position.

Revolution Saint

Injuries aside, did we not do that on Saturday then?

Amen to all of that, it sums it up perfectly.

You should probably do some research if you're going to peddle facts that simply aren't true. Antonio has started one game for Reading; in which he was substituted after 25 minutes. In the other 4 games he has played he has come off the bench each time. And he has scored 2 goals, one of which was against a Saints side that had at most 2 or 3 players from the expected starting line up. Antonio will be missed, I don't think anyone would argue with that. But lets not go completely overboard about how massively important he was last year, or indeed try and distort actual statistics to suit your argument.

Being as he started for them against AC Milan I would be utterly astounded if Wenger allowed him to come to us.

As I stated in my post, I said that Antonio and Waigo certainly had a number of games where they were a big influence. However, your post states that there were "many" where they alone got us out of trouble, which I think enormously overstates the roles they played last year. Maybe you see it differently, which was why I asked you which particular games you were referring to. And I don't believe we do have a lack of options; we are certainly missing those two from last year's squad but we also have a number of other options that we didn't have (Dickson LM, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lee Holmes back from injury, Connolly back from injury, Mills is a year older and judging by Saturday's match seems to have upped his game since last season, Butterfield can play CM/RM, and the right back spot is more secure). I still hope we'll sign either Antonio or a replacement for him (I won't miss Papa if Connolly stays fit though); But to me doesn't mean we're currently short of options, it simply means that at the moment we look ok and another signing would give us a whole wealth of options.

I would like the club to sign three more players; however, I think there's a difference between "need" and "want". Look at what we're missing compared to last year; a whole bunch of squad players who weren't near the team, plus Waigo and Antonio. If we can generally accept that only those two are a necessity to be replaced, we can make the argument that the centre of midfield is exactly as strong as it was last year. Therefore signing another CM would improve us from last year; not signing one would leave us at the same level (OK we lost Lloyd James but that for me is not a bad thing). As for Waigo, I didn't rate him anyway but know others did. Since the arrival of Puncheon, Waigo's chances at right wing were very limited and he was more used up front. However, we now have a fully fit Connolly which we didn't have through the back end of the season, so it could be argued we're covered in that area. Next up, Antonio. It looks extremely unlikely now that we'll sign him so need to look at a replacement. Immediately we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, though clearly the jury is out, but he's been getting some good reviews in pre-season so deserves his chance. At first glance it therefore looks like we're weaker here. The agreement over the 3 signings comes from the fact that they would definitely improve the squad. However, I truly believe we're extremely close to where we were last year. We're stronger at right back, Dickson offers something completely new at left midfield (either as cover for or an alternative to Lallana). It may well be that when Lallana returns he is used on the right with Dickson on the left, which again negates the lack of Antonio there. It may also be that Pardew picks up a trump card in the next few weeks. Either way, there's is every reason to be positive about our chances. I firmly believe that even with our current squad we should be looking at top 2. The three extra signings will just be the icing on the cake and further add to our options.

Instead of using such a generalisation of your opinion, can you provide a list identifying which these "many" games were? Sure, there were a few games where Papa and Antonio made a difference but I'm struggling to think of "many" where they alone dragged us through for a win. Especially so as Antonio was injured for a good part of the second half of the season and the arrival of Puncheon nudged him much more to the sidelines, and Waigo was also only used sparingly from then too.

And as Manchester City showed last season, there is clearly dispensation to bring in an emergency loan keeper at very short notice should the need arise. Not at all concerned with not having a 2nd choice keeper signed yet. Plus one other poster I read on here stated that Bart himself said at yesterday's game that he would be signing so I don't think it's an issue at all.

Seriously, where has anyone said this? Pretty much everyone recognises that we would be a better squad with Antonio in it rather than not. But I disagree with you; I believe that it is negative to state that the squad is significantly weaker for the loss of two bit part players, especially when (as I've outlined above) we have also gained so much in other areas. And doubly so given that AP has stated he still wants to bring in new players. It comes down to this; would we have a better squad with Antonio and Waigo in it? Yes. Have the new players signed added to the quality of the squad? Yes. We may have lost two previous options at right midfield but we also now have more options at right back, left back, left midfield, plus an exciting prospect at right wing who could turn out to be every bit as influential as Antonio was. And a stated desire from the manager to find another player for right wing. If that happens to take a few more weeks then, while not being ideal, there should be no excuses for the players we already have being able to cope more than adequately until then.

This is exactly right. No-one disagrees with the fact that the departures of Antonio and Waigo have diminished our attacking options in one respect. However, it seems to be completely missed that we have also: Signed Dickson who looks like a real prospect in midfield; Got Lee Holmes back to provide more options on the left; Have Joseph Mills who, judging by reviews of yesterday's game, seems to be ready to step up to the mark in midfield; Have Butterfield who, notwithstanding his hat-trick for Palace as an emergency striker, has played a significant amount at right midfield. Have Oxlade-Chamberlain who sounds as if he is right out of the same "impact player" mould as Antonio; Have a fit Connolly back to provide the attacking option we didn't have for a large part of last season. Antonio's impact will of course be missed; but let's not forget that we have also gained in a number of other areas too, and AP has stated he still wants to bring in more players.

Dear me; you're criticising a third tier football club for not having an Alan Ball quality of player in their ranks. Great analogy there. And you seem to be massively missing the point from the game; it seems we learnt much more than you'd credit us for: that before we gave a load of youngsters a run out we more than matched a top level Championship club. That a Saints team without the talismanic Rickie Lambert can adapt and still look very threatening; that shorn of arguably our 4 most influential players we were still able to put out a team that performed very well against a team from the division above. Add in the signings that AP has already stated he intends to make and yesterday's game does nothing but reinforce my opinion that we will be a very strong team this season.

Would be quite surprised if he dropped down as far as League One; I'd have thought that at least a Championship club or even a low end Prem club might take a punt with him. Would be quite a coup if we were to get him.

I agree with that. But I just got the impression from an early time that Reading were very keen to give him a go in pre-season and make the decision from there. And by all accounts he did well for them when he has played, so the chances of them wanting to let him go must have slimmed an awful lot, they wouldn't get a lot of money for him and he's probably on low wages so it's not really a gamble for them. I've still been hoping that they'd decide he's surplus to requirements but its looking less and less likely, even more so with notching today.

Why would he agitate for a move to a lower league club? Especially if he has the confidence in himself that he'll break through into the first team. Much better on a personal level to do that in the Championship than in League One.

Christ, that's arguably our 4 most important players out injured. Hope it's just a precaution for next week otherwise we're going to really struggle.

True. Anyway, as I've perviously said I'm well beyond where I'd like to be without the full facts, and I'm sure they'll come out eventually.

I fail to see the connection though DD; surely by that rationale the club would also be looking to cut out the likes of DBP who made money from his coach scheme. Then you're getting into the fellas on street corners who sell flags and merchandise, where does it end? Like I said, I would very much agree with you if that was definitely the reason NI is unable to get a season ticket. But surely, even if it were the case, why the veil of secrecy whereby they won't even tell him why he is excluded? That on its own makes little sense to me, whatever the reason ends up to be.

This is massive speculation on my behalf, granted, but if he has not been allowed to buy a season ticket why should he be any moe successful trying to buy a matchday ticket? Anyway, I'm getting well beyond where I wanted to be without being in posession of the full facts.

If that were indeed the reason for this, then I would of course agree with you. I just don't think it is though, and is more a reflection of his previous article(s) about the club.

I think the whole point of this is precisely that he can't do this.

I think this sorry episode again highlights the major communications breakdown inherent at the club. The club are seemingly intent on putting up a huge barrier between themselves and the fan base, whereby the only conduit of information comes through the official site. Previously supporters were able to contact individual staff members directly for answers to personal or public questions, this is now seemingly being severely restricted. Akin to the Daily Echo ban, this smacks of bitterness and supreme pettiness by SFC.

Just another talking shop for the same old faces to get their oxygen of publicity. No thanks.

There are and can be no excuses for the season ahead; a substantially slow start to the season will be met with criticism of the manager and team, and rightly so.