The Kraken

He wouldn't leave on a free. He's under 24 and has been developed through the youth system; therefore in exactly the same manner as we've experienced with Dickson we will be due a development fee from any new club, which will either be pre-agreed between us and the new club or will go to tribunal.

It's not ideal, I grant. And I fully agree that 3 more players should be brought in. I'm just trying to put into context that the team and options we have at the moment aren't entirely as bad as is being made out. Wotton isn't the answer, and I didn't suggest he is; merely that for a down the order central midfielder there are many worse we could look to (point in case Lloyd James against Oldham, where AP clearly decided its better to have anyone else filling in that poor old Lloyd). You say it shows the current weakness of the squad, which is a term I disagree with. It certainly highlights where the squad could be stronger, but I wouldn't use the term weak to describe what we have.

Lowe's mantra was that we wouldn't invest money that we didn't have. If you think that alone got us relegated, so be it. I would argue his ridculous managerial appointments and over-involvement with team affairs were more to blame. In any case, it's been done to death and I have no desire to revisit that particular argument.

But how different is it to last year? The problems are just being exacerbated by the extent of the injury list right now. At our last game we missed more than half a team of potential first choice players through injury (Lambert, Puncheon, Lallana, Scheiderlin, Richardson, Seaborne). Unless you're Man City, injuries to that many key players at any one time cannot be fully legislated for and will affect any side. Take Liverpool for instance; remove Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Javier Macherano, Joe Cole, Glen Johnsonand Martin Skrtel from their team and they look very weak on paper. Even with all of our players removed we still have (for this level anyway) a really good number of options there. Plus the assertion of the manager to bring in the extra 2 or 3 players than he wants. I think you do our midfield a slight dis-service. Wotton is clearly a backup CM and no more; but lets not forget that he started (and finished) the JPT final and didn't look out of place there. For a current third choice and hopefully soon 4th choice CM I think it's a good backup to have. Also Mills got quite a few good reviews from his game on Saturday playing RM, so we're not completely bereft of options. It's making do, I'm thoroughly aware of that, I just don't believe its quite as bad as some people make out.

So do you completely disregard Cortese's assertions that the club has to be run as a viable business? Or are you saying you just want us to lump a load of money at the problem, and be damned with whether we make a profit or loss? Rupert Lowe received a lot of justified criticism but his decision to not allow the club to run at a loss was proven correct; under the reckless stewardship of the club after he was ousted we found out first hand what "paying the price" really delivers.

That's the thing though, we won't see on Saturday. A Saints win 4-0 won't prove you wrong in exactly the same way as a defeat won't prove you right. The season is over 46 games, and as you yourself have admitted we already have a very good team to kick off the season with. Would we be better served with added reinforcements? Of course. But they're not here now so we put faith in the very good team we have. Antonio missed a lot of games last season through injury but we did ok in those, so why not this season? I really don't get it. Actions of all 46 games will speak louder than words, but I'm glad my upcoming holidays mean that I'll be avoiding the b1tch fest that will ensue one way or the other on here in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

On odd occasions it did. On odd occasions it beat the league champions on their own ground. And over 36 games (not your nit picking of 3 or 4 bad performances) it averaged championship winning form. It's your opinion that the squad is weaker, not mine. Antonio is a big miss at the moment, Waigo much less so for me. Connolly back is a big plus, Dickson at LM looks great, AOC looks very promising, plus the right back spot is much secure. Swings and roundabouts in terms of squad strength.

I can only assume I'm missing the irony in this post??!!

Don't get me wrong, I still very much would like to see three more players here, as 99% of posters on this board would seem to also. I just find it remarkable that so much is made of the squad from last year compared to this year, there seems to be a complete bypass of reality when comparing the two. We're short of a third CM; Carter has been on trial so we can assume it's being looked at. We're short of Antonio; AOC has come in but I'd still like to see a more developed player come in, but apparently so would AP so it's being looked at. And we have three of teh best strikers in the league, Connolly wasn't fit for much of last year but is now, and we're rumoured to be in for a 4th striker. Panic indeed. This squad would be much better with 3 extra players, but to imply that it's sub-par without them is an ignorant view.

To be fair I think he did give it at least a week or two before throwing his first strop about the lack of transfers. I'm still mystified as to why we would have to panic at all. Leaving aside the fact that AP has said he wants to bring in 2 or 3 more players, we are an Antonio type player short of how we finished last season. Connolly is now fit so fills in the Waigo hole we had (and does it much better IMO), and we have more options in other areas of the pitch that we simply didn't have last year. What on earth is panic inducing about that?

I can only thank God I'm on holiday from Friday; come Saturday afternoon this board will either be infested by the wrist-slitters telling everyone how right they were, or it will be full of those trying to discredit the Alpine brigade and get them to admit they were wrong. Either way it'll be utterly tedious.

Maybe the club are deciding to hold the shirts back to boost away shirts sales; the constant reference to "6 weeks" seems to suggest staff either don't know when new ones will arrive or are being instructed to give a date well in the future. As I recall the sale of the away shirt was delayed, most likely as sales of the home shirt were going so well. I wouldn't be surprised to see a reverse of that initiative in order to boost away shirt sales.

35 appearances; 5 goals. OK, I'll fully accept that the majority of his appearances were from the bench, but 1 goal in 7 is far from exceptional for an attacking player. For me Papa was a bit of a let down; his complete inability to comprehend the offside rule was at first humourous but before too long completely frustrating, and for me summed him up as player. I agree with you that he's a striker rather than a winger, and in that respect I'd much rather have either Barnard or Connolly up front than Waigo. Add in that we're supposed to be looking for a Lambert backup and he'd be looking at the role of 5th striker, which is not a sensisble transfer policy, so I'd now be very surprised if he did come, and a little disappointed as it would mean he was earmarked for that RM position.

Revolution Saint

Injuries aside, did we not do that on Saturday then?

Amen to all of that, it sums it up perfectly.

You should probably do some research if you're going to peddle facts that simply aren't true. Antonio has started one game for Reading; in which he was substituted after 25 minutes. In the other 4 games he has played he has come off the bench each time. And he has scored 2 goals, one of which was against a Saints side that had at most 2 or 3 players from the expected starting line up. Antonio will be missed, I don't think anyone would argue with that. But lets not go completely overboard about how massively important he was last year, or indeed try and distort actual statistics to suit your argument.

Being as he started for them against AC Milan I would be utterly astounded if Wenger allowed him to come to us.

As I stated in my post, I said that Antonio and Waigo certainly had a number of games where they were a big influence. However, your post states that there were "many" where they alone got us out of trouble, which I think enormously overstates the roles they played last year. Maybe you see it differently, which was why I asked you which particular games you were referring to. And I don't believe we do have a lack of options; we are certainly missing those two from last year's squad but we also have a number of other options that we didn't have (Dickson LM, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lee Holmes back from injury, Connolly back from injury, Mills is a year older and judging by Saturday's match seems to have upped his game since last season, Butterfield can play CM/RM, and the right back spot is more secure). I still hope we'll sign either Antonio or a replacement for him (I won't miss Papa if Connolly stays fit though); But to me doesn't mean we're currently short of options, it simply means that at the moment we look ok and another signing would give us a whole wealth of options.

I would like the club to sign three more players; however, I think there's a difference between "need" and "want". Look at what we're missing compared to last year; a whole bunch of squad players who weren't near the team, plus Waigo and Antonio. If we can generally accept that only those two are a necessity to be replaced, we can make the argument that the centre of midfield is exactly as strong as it was last year. Therefore signing another CM would improve us from last year; not signing one would leave us at the same level (OK we lost Lloyd James but that for me is not a bad thing). As for Waigo, I didn't rate him anyway but know others did. Since the arrival of Puncheon, Waigo's chances at right wing were very limited and he was more used up front. However, we now have a fully fit Connolly which we didn't have through the back end of the season, so it could be argued we're covered in that area. Next up, Antonio. It looks extremely unlikely now that we'll sign him so need to look at a replacement. Immediately we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, though clearly the jury is out, but he's been getting some good reviews in pre-season so deserves his chance. At first glance it therefore looks like we're weaker here. The agreement over the 3 signings comes from the fact that they would definitely improve the squad. However, I truly believe we're extremely close to where we were last year. We're stronger at right back, Dickson offers something completely new at left midfield (either as cover for or an alternative to Lallana). It may well be that when Lallana returns he is used on the right with Dickson on the left, which again negates the lack of Antonio there. It may also be that Pardew picks up a trump card in the next few weeks. Either way, there's is every reason to be positive about our chances. I firmly believe that even with our current squad we should be looking at top 2. The three extra signings will just be the icing on the cake and further add to our options.

Instead of using such a generalisation of your opinion, can you provide a list identifying which these "many" games were? Sure, there were a few games where Papa and Antonio made a difference but I'm struggling to think of "many" where they alone dragged us through for a win. Especially so as Antonio was injured for a good part of the second half of the season and the arrival of Puncheon nudged him much more to the sidelines, and Waigo was also only used sparingly from then too.

And as Manchester City showed last season, there is clearly dispensation to bring in an emergency loan keeper at very short notice should the need arise. Not at all concerned with not having a 2nd choice keeper signed yet. Plus one other poster I read on here stated that Bart himself said at yesterday's game that he would be signing so I don't think it's an issue at all.

Seriously, where has anyone said this? Pretty much everyone recognises that we would be a better squad with Antonio in it rather than not. But I disagree with you; I believe that it is negative to state that the squad is significantly weaker for the loss of two bit part players, especially when (as I've outlined above) we have also gained so much in other areas. And doubly so given that AP has stated he still wants to bring in new players. It comes down to this; would we have a better squad with Antonio and Waigo in it? Yes. Have the new players signed added to the quality of the squad? Yes. We may have lost two previous options at right midfield but we also now have more options at right back, left back, left midfield, plus an exciting prospect at right wing who could turn out to be every bit as influential as Antonio was. And a stated desire from the manager to find another player for right wing. If that happens to take a few more weeks then, while not being ideal, there should be no excuses for the players we already have being able to cope more than adequately until then.

This is exactly right. No-one disagrees with the fact that the departures of Antonio and Waigo have diminished our attacking options in one respect. However, it seems to be completely missed that we have also: Signed Dickson who looks like a real prospect in midfield; Got Lee Holmes back to provide more options on the left; Have Joseph Mills who, judging by reviews of yesterday's game, seems to be ready to step up to the mark in midfield; Have Butterfield who, notwithstanding his hat-trick for Palace as an emergency striker, has played a significant amount at right midfield. Have Oxlade-Chamberlain who sounds as if he is right out of the same "impact player" mould as Antonio; Have a fit Connolly back to provide the attacking option we didn't have for a large part of last season. Antonio's impact will of course be missed; but let's not forget that we have also gained in a number of other areas too, and AP has stated he still wants to bring in more players.

Dear me; you're criticising a third tier football club for not having an Alan Ball quality of player in their ranks. Great analogy there. And you seem to be massively missing the point from the game; it seems we learnt much more than you'd credit us for: that before we gave a load of youngsters a run out we more than matched a top level Championship club. That a Saints team without the talismanic Rickie Lambert can adapt and still look very threatening; that shorn of arguably our 4 most influential players we were still able to put out a team that performed very well against a team from the division above. Add in the signings that AP has already stated he intends to make and yesterday's game does nothing but reinforce my opinion that we will be a very strong team this season.