hypochondriac

Taking a stand by kneeling.

Sounds like she sat next to soggy at AA or something like that.

No its a real story.

What you just said made no sense.

Well we had aintforever telling us that no one cares if footballers didn't do it. It seems that some people care if some players don't do it. Had de kock been black I wonder what the South African cricket authorities would have said.

Interesting how quickly it morphed from being a harmless voluntary gesture to people now insinuating that de kock is uneducated or even that he's a racist for not wanting to do it. It's almost like it doesn't have unanimous approval but that people were going ahead with it in order to avoid getting grief...

So now a cricketer has decided not to take the knee and it seems that some people do care. Is this a good thing so you reckon?

Absolutely brilliant reading back through this thread. Soggy pretending to have me on ignore back in August but now you can see he was reacting to almost every one of my earlier posts and the replies to my posts. Superb.

How interesting. I thought we were told that there would be no punishment for those sports people who didn't take the knee? Curious.

Great answer. Sums up my view really well.

Silly story leapt upon by rabid left wingers on twitter.

Fair enough. Apologies I think I read your post wrongly.

I expect if you can't even use the correct pronoun for your friend then I can see why they would be having mental health difficulties.

As you're probably aware, the WHO had to remove gender dysphoria as a mental illness in 2017 under political pressure from trans activists who didn't want it categorised in such a way. Similarly, the dsm 5 was changed under a similar climate of political pressure where gender dysphoria was introduced and it became about aligning the body with the identity rather than anything to do with a psychological disorder. It's one of those things though that everyone knows to be true and yet refuse to speak the truth for fear of being labelled.

I don't think you should bully trans people. I don't think anyone has suggested that. Not sure what you mean by take the piss though. The Dave Chapelle special for example I found very amusing and I don't believe that was taking the piss in the way you mean.

OK but these decisions have led to instances of assault and gross unfairness like in sports do you can see why people would still be very keen to have this discussion in order to ensure that women are protected.

In some ways the class of 92 culture have ruined united after Fergie left. What that club needed was a clean sweep and some fresh modern ideas. All they've done is look back at the past to try to do a tribute act and it's failed.

It only makes a difference when those same people demand to be treated as a woman in all circumstances (sports, prisons, women's shelters, changing rooms etc etc.)

Not sure what you mean by a narrow issue. Someone has a psychological condition where they look in the mirror and see themselves as much bigger than they actually are. Another person has a psychological condition where they feel like an imposter in their own body and they believe they should be the other sex. In what way are they hugely different? Illness implies a negative connotation. I'd suggest that they are both psychological conditions that need treatment.

But someone is unwell if they identify with a body shape that is different to reality?

It's not the end of the debate though by a long way. Not when you have politicians being unable to tell you the definition of a woman, when there are men raping women in female prisons and when the recent tavistock court case brought to light some of the shocking abuses among children. These decisions have real life consequences.

Not necessarily unwell but certainly they have a medical need that needs addressing. Why is believing you are a woman when you are biologically male and as a consequence mutilating your body by inverting your penis to create a wound that never heals and that you have to stick a dildo in regularly to prevent the wound from closing different from someone believing they are fat and as a consequence starving themselves? How is being female and believing you are a man to the degree that you bind your breasts and ultimately slice them off not comparable to something like phantom limb syndrome where you believe that your arm doesn't belong to you so you try to chop it off in order to feel happier? Of course experiencing gender dysphoria is a psychological disorder. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with respect and sensitivity but it does mean that it should be recognised for the serious issue that it is. Being gay isn't the same thing since you're harming no one by being gay and it doesn't require mutilating surgery or harmful drugs in some instances.

What about those who believe they were "born into the wrong body" but over time regret their transition and decide to detransition because they were actually just a lesbian all along and thought that trying to change their gender was the answer? You aren't born into the wrong body. You may have psychological issues that make you feel more content to present yourself as male or female but your body was never wrong. Part of the problem is young people being told that if they hate themselves or feel awkward in their own skin that transitioning is the answer. We don't tell someone suffering from anorexia that they were born in the wrong body, we give them the help they obviously require to accept themselves as they are.

Unless you believe in a God, you're not really given a body, it's just who you are rather like if you're ginger, fair skinned, blue eyed etc. Some people may feel more comfortable presenting as the opposite sex and they should be given the same respect as everyone else but every cell in their body doesn't actually change. If you're a biological male then you're still a biological male even if you feel more comfortable living your life looking and acting like a woman. Big respect to those people by the way, it must be very difficult to live your life in that manner and from what I've seen and heard some do express real frustration and a certain level of despair when they realise that they can never truly change to the degree that would satisfy them. I obviously can't know all transgender people but the few that I have spoken to mostly just want to be left alone to get on with living their lives in a quiet and dignified manner. It's the loudest and the most controversial people who tarnish the reputation for all and cause worry and upset to those I have spoken to.

But a trans man is still a biological woman which is the whole point.