hypochondriac

Agree I'm surprised by how cheap it looks to be honest. The lighting seems weird and the sound and with everything zoomed in it looks very small and insular. It gives the impression it's like a bunch of people playing at being on the telly. Not sure it's for me which is a shame because the media landscape definitely needs some alternative points of view.

Smug White liberals 0 everyone else 1

That's not what I heard. The news reported it as "many" booing which I think is accurate. Clearly they finished it quickly so hopefully it will now be over ASAP if they have to do it.

Indeed. A good solid win. Given our lineup and tactics I couldn't have asked for much more. Not many chances created but it was good enough. Also good to hear some substantial booing despite the threats and PR firms employed to combat it. England fans will not be silenced.

It does happen all the time and people die. What's your point?

TBF it initially looked like he'd just died on the pitch. If that had been the case then I imagine there would have been serious questions about continuing the tournament.

Well I expect that's the tournament over as some sort of serious sporting spectacle. How awful x

We need a new cb. Our defence was absolutely shocking this season.

Where is an example of this thread of people disliking other races? It's comments like yours that make assumptions about people because they disagree with the act of taking a knee which is disgusting and which causes further division. I agree that taking the knee is divisive but any conversations it has sparked haven't been positive at all. In my opinion it's left more divisions and you're less likely to bring about any sort of positive change as a consequence.

Well lots of them have stated that it is their belief that the political movement that has seen cities burnt, cenotaph disrespected and a political agenda being pushed that is disagreeable is linked to the act of taking the knee. If you disagree are you saying they are lying? Why did Millwall fans clap the anti racism gesture at their game and boo the taking of the knee if it wasn't the gesture that they objected to? What do you think the reaction from the fans would be if a different and less divisive gesture was chosen?

Why have you ignored what I wrote? I said already that people are booing the act of taking the knee because of the negative associations attached to it. The political BLM movement has some members who are admitted Marxists and some of their policies and actions have been incredibly dodgy but none of that matters when discussing why people aren't happy with the gesture. Why the players say they are kneeling isn't relevant to the booing of the act.

Why are you bringing up Marxist ideology and the overthrow of the state? I didn't mention any of that and it's not the baggage I am referring to. Why did Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee and then applaud a different gesture the very next game?

I haven't booed anyone but I think the fans that do are perfectly entitled to. They are booing the act of taking the knee because of the political baggage attached to it not whatever the teams claim it represents.

Such a tenuous link between the two. In fact not really anything to do with it at all.

I'm confident that taking the knee at the football hasn't "educated" a single one of the small proportion of people who are football fans and also racists. What it has done is inflamed tensions between a larger group of fans and given some people on twitter and the likes of Gary Lineker the opportunity to call people racist if they express their dislike of the gesture.

Black players receiving racist abuse from people on social miedia- whilst unpleasant and unacceptable to most normal people in society-doesn't mean football has a race problem to any greater degree than wider society. Social media isn't "football" its anonymous users sending abuse online to high profile people which happens to a ridiculous degree.

Players receiving racist abuse on social media is not proof that football has a problem with racism to any greater degree than wider society.

This is completely correct:

Let's be honest this whole thing got a but mad and out of hand last year when everyone was locked in their homes and there were no fans in the stadiums to voice their displeasure. Had fans been there then this would have ended months ago.

Exactly. And if it were plonked in a flag and waved as part of a demonstration and anyone objected then they would be just showing thenselves to be ignorant. Everyone knows the link is incredibly tenuous.

I'm sorry I don't really understand what point you're making now. You've accepted that there's political baggage associated with the gesture whether you personally choose to ignore that association or not. Bit silly to pretend that the black lives matter has had no impact in the UK even if the most negative impact has been in America. There's been loads of actions by the political movement in this country that would be worthy of disapproval and hostility. Something negative happening in my country doesn't have to affect me immediately and directly for me to have either a positive or negative opinion about it.

I think the majority of players either go along with it because they don't want to rock the boat or they believe it's solely an anti-racist gesture. That doesn't mean that the political baggage already mentioned doesn't exist. You've admitted yourself that it existed and then tried to deny it (and are now ignoring that bit.) The gesture and its associations is the issue not what the players or Southgate state is the intention. Its obviously not tenuous or they wouldn't have felt the need to remove the BLM branding.

I don't believe that you believe that the link to the England players kneeling and the BLM political stuff is very very tenuous. Be serious.

So you agree then that the primary achievement of the kneeling before games is to cause a row between people about the divisive nature of the gesture?

I was talking about the reaction on here and on social media. Some commentators have also called the supporters booing racist which is disingenuous at best.