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I wonder if Martin was given the option of changing his approach. If the above has legs I can only think he stuck to his guns. We'll have to wait and see.

Personally I don't get this. Ralph wrote the playbook. When he went we threw the playbook out and went for direct long ball Jones from Luton as that went wrong we dug the playbook out of the waste bin and promoted Ruben Selles, that didn't work either. In the summer in came possession obsessive Martin. SR spent a not so small fortune on players for Jones, Selles didn't use Onuachu. Martin didn't fancy them so this season in came fourteen more players but apart from Downes and Manning none were playing as passing specialists. Manning wasn't that good either. Martin won promotion despite his system not being good enough for top two and finished fourth. Because Bazunu was injured it proved with McCarthy he couldn't play his obsessive passing so McCarthy went more direct and the team tempo was quicker helping us to win through the play offs. Martin's passing game isn't working in the Premier League. SR have hardly shown consistency and totally lacked common sense with their selections. The three systems were as different as chalk and cheese and one could say extreme examples of each.

Most of all flexibility to get the best out of the players, We don't need another one trick pony but somebody to get the best out of the squad.

Very few teams play the obsessive ultrashort passing out from the back. It is slow and deprives the team of any tempo as we try to work the ball into our opponents half intermittently passing back and starting again. It invites opponents to press without much risk and leads to errors and conceding goals. Our forwards are denied space to break unless we win the ball and pass forward immediately for example as the Arsenal goal. Man City with their £50m+ players are an exception. Arsenal had two thirds possession but moved the ball forwards and attacked our final third incessantly. Again with expensively purchased players. Notts Forest and Bournemouth with mostly budget buys showed us the other side of the coin eschewing possession football for fast breaks and hard pressing and both are well up the league. The club's players all can play at a decent level with some better than others but are all at sea with our obsessive possession game. What they need is to be blended into a team where they can play naturally without the straitjacket that Martin has imposed on them. Players play their best when they have a style and framework that comes natural to them. We have a manager where the process is paramount and destroying us instead of having a framework to suit the players we have. We are getting the opposite of good management. Our team product is less than the sum of the parts rather than more than the sum of the parts which good managers achieve. Unless he drops this obsession with his one trick pony and adopts a higher tempo more direct style with less room for catastrophic defence we will have no chance of pulling out of this nosedive we're in. SR should give him the choice of changing or get rid of him as soon as possible. Personally I'm sceptical whether he can change and that it would work anyway. We'll see what he does against Leicester, more of the same and I think he's done.

😄Thanks for that. I'd still go for 6'-8" Onuachu as a focal point up front with Archer and Dibling playing wide and coming in on the 45 to support Onuachu when play is on the other flank. Maybe Downes and Aribo and Fernandes just in front.

Leicester use Vestergaard as a sort of quarter back Play the ball to him in space lying deep then passing forwards. I would like to see him pinned. Stick Onuachu up on him and pin him. Play Dibling and Archer either side and get the ball out wide quickly from defence. Pinning Vestergaard could disrupt Leicester. If we did it successfully and win the midfield we could stop Leicester hitting us on the break.

Shades of Martin last night with Carsley. Smartarse coaches are the graveyard of football. The astute manager has a basic concept how to play based on the players available and never picks a framework to try and accommodate players as Carsley did last night. The defence was hopeless, two full backs who didn't defend, Rice doing what Rice does and five midfielders with no idea how to adapt all playing their own game. Shades of years wasted trying to put Gerrard and Lampard in the same team when totally incompatible. Bellingham and Foden were a clusterfuck, Palmer was lost and wasted, Saka was the only one who held his position. Gordon looked like a fish out of water. The probability of Carsley getting the England job fell through the floor last night, or it should have done. God only knows what he was trying to do. We need a proper manager not a blown up coach that thinks the wheel needs reinventing so do England. Carsley had three centre forwards Kane (not fit), Watkins and Solanke. Pick the best balanced team and if that means leaving out any of Palmer, Bellingham and Foden so be it, Pick proper full backs not upside down wingers. Greece showed us the way with a basic balanced team who really showed us up playing basic football.. Martin has to do the same.

Danny Rohl ?

That is nonsense, we tried playing out but lost the ball to Arsenal, Fernandes won the ball back with a tackle just inside our half and hit a thirty yard ball to Archer on the left wing who cut inside and shot into the far corner. There was no multiple pass play out, a proper break away goal, one tackle, one pass and a shot. Playing it out is wrecking our season.

The thing that annoys me is his obsession with slow possession in our own final third. At this level we are turning ourselves into cannon fodder for the other teams who play at a much higher tempo. If he dropped that we would improve instantly, play more direct from the back therefore the tempo would be higher and the forwards would have more chance to attack on the break. More importantly we wouldn't be giving the ball away in our own last third and conceding goals that way in every match. For me it's change the manager or the way we are playing and if necessary both.

So would I, we'd be top of the league. 😁

Nothing has changed until with goal kicks we stop the centre backs passing to the keeper three yards away who then passes it on or vice versa. As for playing less possession against Arsenal, that was because they were outplaying us and we couldn't win or keep the ball. The way we play is Kamikaze. Against Bournemouth we were careless and weren't focussed otherwise a professional approach would have prevented that damaging first goal.

If the team had learned anything they would have told him to shove his possession straitjacket where the sun doesn't shine.

We don't want another smartarse clever clogs with too much ego. What we do need is a clever simplistic manager that believes in getting the best out of the players and puts them in a framework that suits them and most of all isn't obsessed with possession or has a cast in stone system he wants to make the players try and play whether it suits them or not.

That doesn't mean we can't put out a team that dispenses with the high risk ball rotation in our own half and actually plays high tempo and stands a better chance of conceding less and maybe winning a few matches.

I'm not advocating Martin's sacking because of Arsenal. I am advocating sacking him because he is wedded to a way of playing that apart from needless high risk possession in our own half inhibits our chances of winning because it gifts the opposition easy goal scoring chances. The players are in a possession straitjacket and sometimes we don't even get out of our own penalty area. It's not a tweak that is needed it has to change to a high tempo safety first, pressing the life out of the opposition and fast breakaways, the only way the underdog can survive. One of Onuachu's strengths which appears in many of his goals is to angle and time his runs to get across defenders and finish close in in the goal area with either head or feet. We need to put the ball in there for him and the other strikers. that isn't going to happen often enough playing Martin's way. If the club gave him the choice of ditching the play out from the back and going more direct as we did in the play offs that would be a start otherwise it's time to part company. We don't need another financial crisis so relegation needs to be avoided.

If Martin picks Onuachu and he helps lift our performances Martin needs to be sacked for not trying to keep him last year and for not using him this year. If Onuachu is picked then Martin if he's still manager must tactically try to get the best out of him and ditch the possession obsession.

It shouldn't be his decision. A new manager with I'll look at the squad and give it a shape that gets the best out of the players attitude is what's needed. Not a 600 - 5 yd backwards and sideways in our own half possession obsessive. Just get rid of him before he wastes any more games. Seven is too many already.

That's the way to go for middling team.

The critical change is dispense with the possession obsession and the straitjacket imposed on the players. I feel Martin is obsessed with possession so whatever tinkering around the edges he does isn't the solution. A high tempo, high pressing fast transition into fast breaks together with take no chances at the back. Play the fast pass and run in the opponents half.

The only way a lesser talented team can compete is physically. High tempo, massive press, move the ball quickly forward and take no chances at the back. Kamikaze ball recycling for possession's sake is as it says on the label suicidal in terms of results. Relegation is not just likely playing this way it's certain. The problem as I see it, the longer we delay change the less chance we give his replacement to save us. I don't see any change. I see a desperate rotation without getting it right and a straitjacket possession obsession giving opponents goals. Seven matches in he hasn't got a settled side just constant change.

I've had time to reflect on the difference between Arsenal's about 60% possession and up to yesterday our 60% average possession. The possession was like chalk and cheese. For a start our possession is slow sideways and backwards around our last third and when we lose the ball we funnel back without pressing and passively just back off. Arsenal on the other hand get the ball straight out to their ball carriers who attack at speed and their passing is designed to cut through to create chances. If they lose the ball they swarm forward to win the ball back. Most of Arsenal's possession is in their opponent's half. If yesterday the managers switched and Arteta was our manager does anybody think for one second we would have played the slow recycling go nowhere garbage we were trying to play. Three minutes after scoring Downes flicked the ball casually sideways to an Arsenal player opening us up and in our net ten seconds later. Sugawara, shades of Aribo against Forest needed to put his boot through the ball under pressure before gifting the third goal. The only time we looked ok was Fernandes and Dibling breaking and Archer linking plus much better when Onuachu was holding the centre. We need to change the manager he is now the problem because of his possession obsession and the straitjacket he has imposed on the players. Goals are not going to be scored by us trying to work the ball up the field as we mostly lose it or give it away. We need to press the opponents at a high tempo and break quickly into the opponents penalty area. Martin won't change, the players need freeing up and he isn't going to do it. Under him relegation is a certainty. Continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity.

The reason we got 10 behind the ball was because Arsenal had 67% possession mostly in our half. It wasn't a plan it was force of circumstances. Stewart was never going to get free and Archer was isolated. It was much better with TP, Dibling, Archer.

When the ball hit the bar off THB/AA he was causing mayhem behind them. Defenders were struggling because he towered over them. Start him from now on as a CF with a partner. If that means 4-4-2 so be it. Ramsdale Sugawara/KWP THB Bednarek Taylor, Dibling Downes Fernandes Armstrong, Onuachu Archer with no tippy tappy crap.

Whatever the verdict we lost three goals which our possession obsession contributed to. As Martin wants to play this Kamikaze passing at the back and midfield let him do it somewhere else. The players should be drilled so that the first reaction in our last third is tackle hard and put a boot through the ball and leave some players up top to fight for it. Our short passing for passing sake at the back is our biggest weakness as it is inhibiting the players.