Hockey_saint

Yeah, I am aware of a few. I've not posted for a while (been quite unwell). I was a remainer (still kinda am) but I could honestly see the hope that prompted most leavers. It's a tough one for me as I wouldn't trust the three main Brexiteers to look after my pet hamster. We are where we are aren't we? Also, remember, Boris said he wanted more Asian immigration and promptly told the polish foreign sec. that he wanted more Polish migration....I bet that went down like a lead balloon for some leavers.

Of course they'll have to re-think. Ah, Harold Wilson, the only PM in semi-recent times to stand up to the US and say no to sending troops (shame Tony Blair was too gutless to do that)...Then again, he also said to Ian Douglas Smith "we don't want Rhodesia to leave, but we'll send absolutely no forces to stop you"...yeah...that worked. Sorry, I digress. I understand why people voted to leave, I really do but I think people forget just how manipulative politicians are. For example, they know full well, lines like "taking back control" can mean one thing to one group and another entirely to another so did they expect the amount of hate crimes we've had? They must have known it was on the table. No, I'd love to see an independent Britain, doing deals around the world but come on, let's live in the modern world eh? That's never gonna happen is it? globalisation is here to stay and as Super Mac said, we're either with or we allow the winds of change to sweep right past us. Either way, come on, it really does appear to be an absolute cowardfest in the leave camp at the minute,

It was always going to happen unfortunately though as Goldsmith had basically been losing throughout the campaign but I still think it was just another line of morality that this government were trying to test.

I am....finally, and very unfortunately, going to have to agree with you on that one....I know...But I read what Sadiq Khan had to say and thought "yeah, he's pretty much totally right" :s

No but there could be a coalition with the SNP Lets face it the Press totally rubbish non tory parties so the things published must have some affect on peoples perception on labour. I know lots of grass roots Labour members who think that Corbyn is not that left wing but he is certainly left wing compared to the red Tories like Khan Blair Brown Straw etc Exactly. Also, so earlier this year the Disabled conservatives' were alienated to the point they hijacked their website in disgust at cuts and now it appears the Muslim conservatives appear to be the next in line: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/07/top-conservatives-condemn-zac-goldsmiths-disgusting-mayoral-campaign I wonder who's next.

That's true; his sister has appologised stating that he's quite a nice fellow and basically suggesting that directions for his nasty campaign came from above (i.e. dodgy Dave and his boys).

Until the government threaten to remove their licence....which they've done a few times...kinda keeps them in line. Also, CB, don't play dumb. You know Blair's politics have radically altered Labour and now it's basically full of the type of MP he liked...You know, the ones that don't seem to give two hoots about Labour voters.

The last election results would suggest otherwise concerning not being sick of Blair and his new Labour politics although at the minute, his lot appear to be throwing their toys out of the pram quite a bit in public, which is kinda not on in any party. I think a few things contribute to this though, the A8 states vote that Blair lobbied for, the traditional Labour voters in Scotland moving over to the SNP and UKIP in England but I do take issue with this "non-tribal" notion of yours as I would never dream of voting conservative as I kinda have a conscience...Also the same reason I'd not vote for Labour if someone like Liz Kendall was in charge.

I assume you are misreading me because that's what I've said. The new (blue, Blairites) labour bunch won't get in because people are sick of Blair and new Labour politics; the old Labour ones won't get in because they are (supposedly) too far to the left as people remember pre-Thatcher days and therefore people are either abstaining or voting for someone else. I highly doubt most are voting Conservative however.

Well, or abstained, voted UKIP or Liberals....Democracy is an interesting thing isn't it? The turn out was quite low and the conservative lead wasn't fantastic (not as fantastic as they currently act like it is anyhow...what with ignoring people in the commons whilst playing with their phones for example).

Or don't vote at all. Nothing bonkers about it.

It's sad isn't it? I am always hopeful but I suppose I am beginning to get a bit fed up with no return punch or a decent fight from Labour (obviously other than with themselves.)

Good question; the actual labour supporters in Scotland seem to vote SNP (and you know this has to be true when their youngest MP, on her opening speech in the commons uses a Benn speech) and half of them in England seem to vote UKIP...Like it or not, this probably has a lot to do with Blair and Corbyn but either way, I think, as posted above, this does seem dire as Labour should be hammering the conservatives as they're all over the shop at the minute.

Do bare in mind Labour got slaughtered in the council elections immediately after 1997 so I suppose this doesn't mean much.

That's a pretty outstanding reason why. I mean, I just get annoyed by (I do the same to the rightys I know) comments like "these lefties/corbynites" as if we're all the same and we're doing it for the same reason. Not true; I personally don't understand why being of the left shouldnt stop you aspiring to be better (I still cringe at myself explaining to my niece that there isn't a k in something as "people will judge the way in which you speak in life" and "you don't want to sound like you're from the gutter" and "you have to try to aspire to better yourself") I, as mentioned here am a disabled person and I just see so much taking a dump on societies poorest, the weak, the sick and I do often associate that with the right and think "arseholes" sometimes and often can't understand the mindset of people who would openly vote for that sort of thing with the excuse "my taxes pay for that", please forgive me for the tangent. But that's about the best reason for voting to the right that I've kinda heard.

Brilliant brilliant result for the Foxes and my heart bleeds for the north London yobbos ha....ha....hahahaha

Very funny....nah you definitely wouldn't (which was your point). Well my mum's very much traditional labour, appeared at loads of TUC conventions and my dad's the son of 2 Lib Dem voters and he's very much a swing voters. Come on, it's the main thing aside from football I get to stop him talking about "bloomin migrants" (another thing he's not really affected by.).

I'll put it like this: worker's rights have been trampled on quite a bit lately and there doesn't appear to be much bright light ahead on this front with this current government and since someone like that is now (well, he's been out of it for about 10 years) out of the loop, and he'll have a say on these people's working conditions because of his experience 30-40 odd years ago is astonishing to me. It's good that you bring up the DDA though because, to me, it's the same as a perfectly able-bodied person (with not a huge amount of knowledge of those with disabilities) having a say on how they should be treated. It's kinda not on.

Firstly, you know the word socialist in the NSDAP is an abhorrent misuse of the word but you also understand that the reason Corbyn got in is NOT because a large percentage of Labour voters want a bunch of Trotsky-obsessed old men in but the overall feel is that Labour, whilst searching for the centre ground have actually gone too far and are basically no better than the conservative party...which they are failing at too right? That's why those on the right will not win anything too. You understand that right?

Depends on your viewpoint. So you think a retiree should have any influence on the rights of current workers? Also, Nolan, my point is that when you tarr every union with the mistakes of the past (the past being the point) you denigrate the hard work of generations that came before it because if they were never there, it's fair to say many of the hard earned rights we have today would not exist.

No, you have a point but Labour should never forget where it came from and to kinda bring up anti-semitism is almost a dagger in the very foundation of the party. I had a disagreement with my father today who (unlike my mother, who's a staunch Labourite) kinda is a swing voter, and he was banging on about the crooked unions and how they should never return to the party. My viewpoint was that he's basically retired so he really has no say in the working life of people and that his views are somewhat archaic and that today is a new world and we can't let people of his age colour our judgement of the left because they virtually ruined the image of those hardworking men who built the friendly societies and the unions, people like those from my father's village who were shipped off to Australia for striking and that we should realise that what happened with things like the breaking of the Heath government are not and should not be viewed as the inevitable result and conclusion of those many years. Sorry, bit of a rant there but I understand a lot of what you say, I just feel whatever we call hard left will never and can never be the same as before.

I think to everyone knows except die hard right-wingers that Labour owe a hell of a lot to people of the Jewish faith and frankly, it's kinda disgusting that the conservatives and right wing elements are trying to use hatred of that very group of people to discredit Labour. I suppose the lefties could try to smear the right with hatred of non-democratic, self-serving, empire-loving, black-shirt-praising, animal hunting, toffee-nosed scumbags but then....that's what everyone should be doing.

Well, like communism, unions have pretty much been muzzled.....So what are you afraid of? By "sensible" I suppose you mean privatising everything and making everything much more expensive? I mean, communism was an ideal, an ideal that most "sensible" people, you'd assume would understand and get behind but I suppose it never really panned out that way since nutcases always seemed to take over the asylum but really it does confuse me, if what you say is true, why is the mention of communism always gets mentioned in a "red under the bed" kinda way, they're dying out, can't hurt your profits anymore...or is it that you just need an opposite view point in capitalism to beat down?

Ah, the old "we're fighting communism" argument that right wingers use to justify themselves....Ian Douglas Smith did that during the Bush war. (although he did once or twice let slip his actual thoughts).

I think you should consider the context of that as anyone who's seen Laurence of Arabia will tell you, whilst it was a good thing (the Balfour agreement) in general, in that it basically allowed Canada, New Zealand and Australia to eventually become nations in themselves, we'd already signed and pledged to honour an agreement to set up an Arab Palestine so you could say that this is pretty much Arthur Balfour and the British government's fault anyhow.