EastleighSoulBoy

Let's go one further. All babies have DNA taken. The details then quickly go to a research centre. Those that are defined as being 'pre-disposed to criminal tendencies' are watched until they do wrong. Then the state kills them, without trial, by shooting them in the back of the head so that body parts can be harvested for the healing and life saving of 'good' people. meanwhile those details of babies who are 'predisposed to life threatening illnesses' can be immediatley culled to save those 'good babies' who may need a transplant through an accident. BNP in charge? Those babies who's DNA show that they might have a baby later in life, who doesn't fit their 'skin colour demograph' can be 'dealt with'. Histrionic? Far fetched? Maybe, but we are at the top of a slippery slope, who knows where it could lead.

TBF, I think that most of the crap that is spouted on here is rhetoric and banter. Sure, there are a few who do genuinely want to see the end of all things pfc but they are really not representative of the majority of Saints fans. Most of us have a really healthy dislike for the pfc mongs who always seem so bitter about us and want us out of existence. Maybe their dislike is rhetoric? I didn't think so about 12 years ago when, with my 18 month old daughter, I was 'accosted' by some neanderthals at Fleet services who told me I was 'lucky I 'ad my kid wiv me'. So you have to take a lot of what is said as 'what goes around comes around' type of banter. pfc fans, in general, have always seemed (IMHO) to hate us with a far more intense feeling than we do them. As to those pfc fans who are not 'neanderthal'? It's real sh!t, isn't it? to be in the crap like we were over the previous two seasons. Sure, we'll gloat, laugh, make comments but we need pfc for a dose of reality. For us to realise that we are not the worst club in England. Normal service soon to be resumed? Bragging rights fully restored? Let's hope so, but let's also hope that you get over your lessons and soon end up playing us again. We look forward to those 'easy six points' every season or so when you make it back to join us.

Or just a right wing, over generalistic 'all compassioante people are thickies' loony?

The issue is that the Chinese did not let the man's defence show evidence of his mental instability, which they felt was the cause of him being inveigled into becoming a drugs mule. The fact that capital punishment is barbaric is another issue, so don't try to cloud things over!

Thanks for the info, I wan't sure of my own reasoning that IQ wasn't neccesarily related to mental health. Indeed poverty is a drain on I.Q. which is why, when someone breaks free of that constraint, it should be celebrated for the achievement it is.

One thing of note, from your earlier piece of info (I.Q. of lower than 70) and it made me ask How do 'they' reach what seems an arbitary figure? Would someone, as in this particular case we are debating, automatically have a low I.Q. because they have Bi-polar disorder? Or would the low I.Q. be as a direct result of a poor education caused by that illness?

I had that too, but at least the fella PM'd me to apologise! I wouldn't want you dead, or harmed even. Who the f**k would we have to try and wind us up? :wink:

In fairness,most of the time it is you who gets personal first by being rude and calling others idiots!

That's the crux of the argument and why voices are being raised against China's shambolic attitude toward human rights.

Ok.

serious question. Do you understand Verbal's question? I only ask because earlier, when I said I thought you were trolling, I wondered if you had read all the links but were just trying to be a WUM?

No, it wouldn't make an argument to answer your question. Your question is far too sensible.

Indeed, and why any legal system of a responsible standing would halt due process to afford any claimant the full chance to explore the claim. And then pass judgement with that evidence in mind.

I don't know but if I was going to face the death penalty then I'd give it a try as a mitigating factor. But don't let this cloud the fact that this fellow had exhibited this illness prior to his pop star adventure which so sadly cost him his life. I would hardly be able to successfully plead mental illness if I had never exhibited any tendency previously. Which is what make this case all the more poignant because he had, and the Chinese Legal System chose to not allow the evidence.

Because nobody, least of all his family, really picked up on it! And, when it mattered most, the highest authority at the time, the Chinese Legal system, failed him and did not give him the proper chance of justice!

One of the 'little things' we do know is that the man had a mental illness, Bi-polar disorder, as explained in more personal detail by one of our fellow members earlier. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Symptoms.aspx Just a quote from the site, in which they describe the symptoms when in the 'manic' state: feeling very happy, elated, or euphoric (overjoyed), talking very quickly, feeling full of energy, feeling full of self-importance, feeling full of ‘great’ new ideas and having ‘important’ plans, being easily distracted, being easily irritated, or agitated, being delusional, having hallucinations, and disturbed, or illogical thinking, not feeling like sleeping, not eating, and doing pleasurable things which often have disastrous consequences, such as spending large sums of money on expensive and, sometimes, unaffordable, items. All which can be fuelled by someone bright enough (and these drug barons, terrorists etc are!) to to use the illness.

You really are reverting to type now. He who shouts loudest wins the argument? Arguments are not always won in that manner, or by blitzing the feck out of a country. Sometimes a reasoned and calm response to a point may win a debate. I used your analogy of the potential to show that we all have a potential to kill. I have that potential when I drive my car. It doesn't make me a mass murderer any more than the armed forces with their megatons of weapons or this poor fellow with the heroin. If I make a bad mistake tomorrow I could be responsible for a death (or more). Would I deserve the death penalty (if I was not on drink, drugs or mobile phone)? The debate is about this man's mental state, was he fit for trial? did he make a conscious decision to carry the drugs. I don't know, nor do you. So stop puffing out your military chest. Read the links, go to the reprieve web site and read it all. You may not change your opinion but you may just realise what people are arguing for here.

Not at all, if you read what I say! You used the word potential. I used two words, legally and potential. Do you not think that you and the rest of the armed forces carry, legally, the potential to kill millions? You are trolling, you keep looking for other parts of a comment to niggle and nit pick. The whole debate is hinging on his culpability and, again, the weight of public comment says that the Chinese have acted immorally in not allowing this man's defence the opportunity to explore his mental state. A mental state which more than likely had a massive bearing on any decisions, or ability he had, to make them. Why do you feel insulted? Forces personnel don't feel insulted.

And what you lot carry (legally) in your bunkers has the potential to cause? You are trolling. If you have read all the links placed here then you will be well aware that the weight of feeling is that this guy, although carrying the drug, more than likely had no idea what he was doing. Apart from travelling to China to become a pop star. Whoever set him up appealled to his baser instinct that he wanted fame and fortune. Guilty, as charged, but the Chinese didn't really want to listen to any evidence otherwise.

Ref your first question (repeated here) May I refer you to the answer I gave earlier and, just to clarify my point, I'm not sure he knew the difference between right or wrong. Furthermore I don't believe that he knew he was being used as a mule! Not knowing right from wrong does not make a person totally incapable of other abilities such as travelling from one country to another.

The Chinese don't seem to have investigated your question. Any country with a decent legal system would have afforded his defence team the time to answer that. Along with any other probing questions which may, or may not, have proven his ill health.

I have to agree with you here Benjii. It's all so simple isn't it? I'm getting confused by thoughts of an English military serviceman actually supporting the anti humanitarian behaviour of a Communist dictatorship, while thousands of his colleagues are in far flung places fighting the anti humanitarian behaviour of the Taliban etc.! As to the family not knowing he was in Poland? Did they have any control over the poor fella? In fact, did he even realise he was in Poland?

I think you have two main issues here. 1. Drugs - They have to be controlled. For me to find a way how is difficult to know how to do. The generally accepted way here in the UK seems fine but, at times, doesn't go quite far enough. By far enough I don't in any way advocate execution. 2. More a question really. What comes first? Criminality or the Bi-polar disorder? As previously mentioned the mental illness element is one that almost anyone on Death Row might want to exploit. Each case, though, has it's individual issues. Shaikh's issue is that as a mentally ill person he would seem to have been manipulated by the criminal fraternity. Which brings his culpability into question.

His relatives make the case that he has had bi-polar for many years. Probably not diagnosed professionaly but certainly characterised by his odd behaviour. I'd not find it improbable that he was 'noticed' and groomed by the criminal fraternity for the sole purpose of this mission. The criminal (drugs) world would view him as an expendable asset. The small amount of money for a few plane trips and a 5 star hotel stay were seen, probably, as a good investment for the return!

To be honest it's a ploy worth trying, being a last chance gamble! However, in this instance, this man is on record as having behaved extremely oddly, as in Bi-polar disorder, and most countries in the world would have looked at this mitigating evidence.