Verbal

No mention of Gorkss. Was the swap deal taken off the table by QPR in the hope that we'd be desperate to offload Puncheon anyway?

You're too infantile to engage on subjects like this. You clearly have no idea what race actually means. Nor, obviously, have you seen much of Britain outside your Mum's back bedroom. To describe Britain as like apartheid-era South Africa shows a lack of comprehension unusual among adults.

Race plays no part in it. And if you actually read back what you've written, you'd see that. The first part of your post flatly contradicts your last sentence. Subcultures, not race.

I find your reaction interesting. I have heard several justifications like this from those who took part in the looting. It's not that I'm condemning what you did - I have not said that, nor am I having a dig at Saints fans. Your perception of this betrays nothing more than your shallow, thin-skinned and unreflective rage. What I am saying is that there IS an underlying, shared psychology here, as much as you hate the thought of it and tip your toys out of the pram at the temerity of anyone - including those who were there - who suggests that there is ANYTHING in common with what happened at the Dell and in London.

It is relevant though. The psychology of crowds is all about disinhibition. Your flying into an apoplectic rage is a kind of one-man riot, though - or more precisely, a tantrum.

Exactly. The psychology of crowds.

So yes or no? (And the last game I saw at the Dell was Arsenal)

So did you?

Don't let the sand get in your ears.

For the most part, it's a pretty sensible discussion on that Pompey board.

Nicked one too then?

There is a connection. It's called disinhibition - what happens when the psychology of crowds overrules the kinds of moral imperatives that might normally restrain people from ripping things off. Looking at the social make up of the people appearing before the courts is quite revealing in this sense - a mix of professionals, students, people from the estates...all sorts, basically.

If this were true, you wouldn't have riots every Bastille Day in Paris and other major French cities. The CRS in France have a free hand to break heads. If anything, it's made things worse. Adding some of the accoutrements of a police state - like a CRS-like paramilitary response force - tend only to entrench attitudes that lead to this kind of collapse in social order. It was after all the shoot-first-ask-questions-later perception which ignited all this in the first place. We have to be cleverer than that. The policing in my borough - Hammersmith and Fulham - was effective. Take a leaf out of their book.

For all the hand-wringing about causes and consequences, the looting is really only about one thing: desire. And it’s shaped by the pervasive influence of a black youth subculture, shared by young whites and blacks alike and imported largely from the US, which places high status on ‘labels’ – for clothes, electronics, you name it. The problem is that it’s hard enough if you’re on benefits or in school or in low-paid work to buy clothes or pay for your TV licence. But when you absolutely must have Gucci, Armani, Sony, Apple, Sky, Nike, etc., the gap between your desires and how to fulfill them becomes a yawning chasm. Unfortunately, the same subculture has violence and gangsterism written into its DNA – as well as a ‘this is mine if I want it’ mantra. It’s a fatal mixture. So when it became clear (very quickly) that the police were going to stand by as shops were emptied and torched, suddenly all those desires could be met in one orgiastic rush. (Hence the party atmosphere – the cheering and laughing – that many bystanders have observed). To hell with the idea that someone’s flat has just gone up in flames, or that a local business has been wiped out for good – the looter has a nice collection of labels to wear or stick on eBay, and a feeling that it is all gloriously justified because the loot has been ‘liberated’ from mainstream culture. Which all amounts to saying that this subculture is a pyramid of nothing much more than violent selfishness.

Further to trousers' excusing police inaction, I'd just like to add that there were threats of serious disorder in my borough (Hammersmith and Fulham), all of which were dealt with effectively by the police. The worst problem was in Fulham Broadway - but it was quickly slapped down. So among the carnage, there are a few lessons about how to do thing right... Cllr Greg Smith, H&F Council Cabinet Member for Residents' Services, says: "The scenes of violent thuggery, looting and criminal damage from across the capital are appalling. In H&F, the local Police did a fantastic job in keeping residents safe last night when other areas suffered so badly. There were serious risks of disorder in the borough that were successfully prevented and arrests made. “However, there is an ongoing situation across London and the Police remain on high alert. The council will assist the Police in generating convictions for any disorder that does occur locally by sharing CCTV and other intelligence. We will also radically pursue any council tenants who are proved guilty of being involved in criminal activity by seeking evictions where appropriate.” http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/News/London_disorder_local_update.asp

No. Cut, as in cut off. Removed.

I wonder if my local council is the first...? Hammersmith and Fulham have said that anyone convicted of looting will have housing benefit cut.

You think so? The annual Bastille Day riots in Paris and other major French cities would suggest otherwise.

Spooky.

You mean you HOPE he's mental, otherwise you're going to look a bit of a dufus.

No, that's not my point. The Met have a dreadful track record for having a tin ear for how to respond. whether it's kettling 15 year olds or standing by watching as rioters take over. By saying ' ho hum, damned if they do, damned if they don't', you're simply excusing their management failures. The cops on the ground know what's needed; their overseers do not.

No, merely damned. The shame of this is that the riots happened predominantly in London, probably the worst led, poorest managed, accident prone of all police forces in the UK. The dreadful sight of police in full riot gear sitting on their hands was because they were spread too thinly and waiting for instructions about what six could do against 200. My nephew was on duty for the Met in Tottenham the last two nights. He and his colleagues don't lack confidence or certainty about what to do - they just have find themselves sent in small numbers to do little more than be a presence.

This is not the Muppet Show. You need to be a bit more grown up in your responses.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/camila-batmanghelidjh-caring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html

Camila Batmanghelidjh has been working miracles for years. In all the cacophony, hers is a voice that should be listened to most carefully.