Verbal

Several hundred?! I thought he died barely two hundred years ago. Didn't they teach you American history before they lined you up with the other immigrants to stick your hand on your heart and pledge blinding allegiance? Franklin was dead right though.

Ponty's advice was to cut out the abuse - not stop posting in a hissy fit. I've eaten whale in a Japanese restaurant in Tokyo. How it got there is interesting. The Japanese are not allowed to catch whales commercially, except in small numbers like those in The Cove', which I think is legally sanctioned by the International Whaling Commission - who also sanction whaling in other traditional communities like the Quinault indians of Washington State in the US. However, the 'research' meat has some perfunctory 'research' done on it and is then passed down the food chain, so to speak. It is, in other words, a bit of a dodge. The Japanese signed up to the Whaling convention and then looked for every conceivable way around it. So as a customer eating whale meat in a Japanese restaurant, I was probably more at fault than those in the cove. (Does it cut any ice that the whale - cooked 'Korean style' - was pretty good?) But the larger point is that the Japanese are doing something much less defensible with their 'research' vessels than with the slaughterers in the Cove. As meat eaters ourselves, we in the West are in a bit of a glass house throwing stones by complaining about the killing of dolphins. Other cultures ARE different in ways that can make us wince. But it's reasonable, on both sides of the argument, to hold all sides to international agreements - whether it's to ban commercial whaling or to license whaling and dolphin hunting among traditional communities.

So would you moderate your earlier claim that the 'new orthodoxy' is that the North Atlantic Drift isn't changing and won't change? I've always understood that a change or fizzling out of the NAD was a possibility in some climate models - but that, as you say, 'we don't know'. The idea that there is convincing evidence that everything is and will be fine is what puzzled me.

Don't ask me, ask Azougy. He'll give you a credible answer. But that's what he said - £40 million paid off by Sunday. This is on top of the claim that after the players were p[aid, the fans would immediately get some news that would make them all happy. Does he mean us?

Source, Grandad? Yours are the most plausible sceptical posts on here, so I'm always curious.

Azougy promised to pay off £40m of debts by this Sunday, which presumably includes the £28m to Gaydamak.

For or against?

As someone who shares a birthday with Napoleon III, I prefer Boxer's 'Napoleon is always right.'

Trousers, while it's certainly true that ants, for example, are more important to the planet's ecosystems , it's not much of a philosophy to live by, is it: 'Yes, the destruction of the human race is all very well, but what about the ants'?

You're assuming that Muslims in Luton did nothing before the racist arson attack. I wonder why? There weren't ANY Muslim protests or actions against extremists? Are you serious? As I've said a few times, you're clearly one of many on here for whom no amount of proof otherwise would change your mind. I note with interest that when I posted a strong and beautifully articulate Muslim protest against Chaudary earlier in this thread, the usual suspects ignored it. A little too inconvenient for their little mindset, obviously.

No, it isn't different, not least because the petrol bombing by white racists was not the only catalyst. But as I say, for you, VFTT, dune, and others no doubt, whatever they do will, in the end, never be enough.

Okay, I'll spell it out, although I'd have thought that with someone who likes to trumpet his own intelligence you'd have got it: why are you assuming that it was only the arson attack that led to the actions in Luton?

You can ask yourself that bullsh*t question if you like, but I won't, because it's been asked and answered so many times, only for some like you to whine on and on about how whatever they do is never 'enough'. There are plenty of examples of Muslims showing for more courage against extremists than you give them credit for, so it's utterly pointless arguing with you.

I'm not talking about that event - which ended with Muslim residents having their shops and cars wrecked. Here are two links. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/luton-fights-back-against-rightwing-extremists-1695485.html http://straightshooters.blogspot.com/2009/05/moderate-muslims-drive-out-al.html No doubt they still won't have done enough in your or VFTP's eyes. They probably deserved to have their property damaged and their families threatened by white racists.

Neither the UAF nor the BNF/EDL were present in Luton. The idiots from al-muhajiroun were shouted down by local Muslims. Again, there are plenty of examples of Muslims taking action against extremists in a way that's far, far stronger than sitting anonymously behind a keyboard and moaning.

Did you not see who protested against al Muhajiroun in Luton? It was other Muslims from the town shouting them down. I'd also ask you you to re-read this thread because there are plenty of examples of Muslims taking action against extremism - some of them paying the ultimate price of being murdered, not just in this country, but in some of the most challenging and dangerous places in the world. I get the impression sometimes that this line about 'Muslims not doing enough' is trotted out without much thought or research.

Judging only from the mountain of reports coming out daily about The Last Days of Pompey, I can only assume that the club have managed to invent a form of social conduct previously unknown to humanity. Everyone making public statements from the boardroom seems to be a credulous liar. That is, while knowingly telling porkies, each board member believes unquestioningly every word uttered by other fibbing board members. It's head-spinningly WEIRD. And it's actually a good idea for a movie - or an ironic fairy tale with a very sad ending that sends everyone off to sleep happily.

Only on Saintsweb....

Yes, it's odd. There is no way that they will make it to the end of the season. Whatever the FA or PL wishes, there's the small matter of UK and EU company law.

It depends how cold you want to be. One of the great questions is what the Gulf Stream (or North Atlantic Drift) is going to do. If it's deflected, or fizzles out, we'll have roughly the same temperature as other places on the same latitude. So if you want a weather forecast for today, check out Labrador, on the same latitude, and -26.

I'm curious then - what was your source? The UN?

Exactly. They have Lens and a long list of agents to pay off. They will have less than nothing from that.

And yet 2000-2009 has been the warmest decade in recorded history. How very odd. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091208/ap_on_sc/climate

United's debt has actually RISEN by more than £100 million since Glazer took over. They are not in decline on the football pitch for nothing.

Can we have a countdown to 10 January, when 'we have answers to everything' Daniel Azougy has solemnly promised to 'pay all creditors' £40 million? (Like he promised a statement from Marc Jacob ' by the end of the day' yesterday.) And BTW, 10 January is a SUNDAY.