dune

Coalitions may deliver centre ground politics in other countries but that won't happen here. I'm not saying the alliances won't be workable, but what I am saying is that the alliances will divide the nation and lead to anarchy.

I'm concerned about wacky left wing parties such as the Liberals and the Greens being part of the left wing pact, this will be the price of PR. When they get in you're going to see the Far Right react with anger and their ranks swell, conversely when the right wing pact is in power comprising the Tories and UKIP etc you're going to see the lefties up in arms and their ranks swell. PR will see the far right and the far left grow and in my opinion this will lead to a rise in civil disturbances.

Best case a polarisation of politics, worst case civil war.

But why are the BNP growing so fast? It's simple to have a pop at the sympton as the mainstream polticians and those with their heads in the sand do, but this doesn't address the cause.

I'm voting UKIP, keep up. And yes PR will strengthen my beliefs when the right is in office, but equally when the left is in it's going to annoy me immensely. It's the extreme yo yoing that PR will bring that worries me because it could lead to anarchy.

Decisive poltics isn't the word, radical is the word. Gone will be the days of centre ground politics. It's a step into the unknown and it's not without great danger. And i couldn't give a toss what the Tories or anyone else are saying, I make my own mind up on issues.

It will though, it stands to reason. Imagine there's a Lib-Lab-Green rulling coalition putting up taxes, scrapping our nuclear deterent, giving our powers to Brussels and the public want change. They'll then vote for one of the parties in the Right wing block to change the direction and these parties will gain over 50% of the vote and in comes the Tories, UKIP, the ulster unionists and the whole political ideology will swing right over from hardline left politics to hardline right politics. Notice i didn't say far left and far right, but it won't be far off it. Don't get me wrong I do want the tories to move to the right and PR will deliver this, but it's going to be hell for people like me when the Left get in. Vice Versa this if you're a leftie. So ask yourself this - what is the effect going to be on society of such polar systems? I can see it leading to political unrest and violence on the streets and we'll end up like a more politically divided nation than America where the Left/Right split is so prominent, however unlike in America the splits in opinion won't be over thosands of miles due to our geographics and overcrowded island so the potential for clashes is greatly increased. In short PR will lead to anarchy.

As i've explained in another thread PR will change politics forever and will radicalise the parties away from the centre ground because of the pacts that will be required. Basically all PR will do is create another two party system with the choice being RIGHT or LEFT due to how parties will ally. I'm very concerned about the unknown, it may work alright, but those Liberals that are so keen on the idea need to realise that a coin has two side and when the Left are not the ruling side of the house it's going to ultra right wing which they'll hate, when the Left are the ruling side of the house it'll be the polar opposite.

I'm now a lefty and backing UKIP. As i've consistently said i don't support the BNP, but voted for them to send a message to the establishment. However you've got to look at the bigger picture and if there is voting reform then UKIP are the party that needs strengthening because they would ally with the Tories in a right wing coalition. Picture the house, you'd have Labour, the Liberals, the Greens and the other lefties on one side, then you'd have the Tories, the Ulster Unionists and UKIP on the other. The BNP wouldn't be touched. So to throw out the left voters will have to vote in the right and UKIP would form a major part of the right and this would take the right away from the centre ground. Equally the Lefts pack would have to move further to the left for the likes of the Liberals and the Greens to support them. I'm not in favour of coalitions, but what it would mean is that centre ground politics would be a thing of the past - BAD when the lefties got in, but GOOD when the right got in.

So now we know exactly where the Liberals stand. Forget the lies about them forming a government with the party given the mandate - be that the most votes or the most seats, as he has come out today and categorically stated he'll only go into government with the party that agree's to PR voting. The Tories have already said they won't throw away the british system of majority governments in favour of a system that will eave us with coalition governments forever (although they haven't ruled out a referendum), wheras the desperate Labour party have agreed to reform (whatever this reform entails is anyones guess). Based on this it's reasonable to assume that a vote for the Liberals is a vote for Brown and a vote for the end to strong government forever. In a recent poll conducted for ITN 75% of voters said they didn't want a hung parliament, with 20% in favour and 8% undecided, so it's clear that Cleggs demands are not what the public wants. It's disgraceful that he's putting his own agenda above the good of the country and resorting to blackmail when our country is in such a dire economic situation.

ha ha, good thread. Personally i'm looking forward to the day when we once again assume our position of league superiority and simply have a dignified smirk on our faces whilst they revert back to being bitter and twisted and envious and bragging about the attendances they got in the 1950's.

You'd have to be a fool to back against him, but i might be tempted by the odds to do just that.

This may sound weird, and it's totally different to before, but now i'm worried about bringing in new players that might upset what is already a good team. We don't need many new players, but those we do sign have got to be bloody good at this level to warrant playing for SFC.

True, but i think the Tory whips would find it easier. Brown has already survived one badly orchestrated plot, but the Millibandites are biding their time to strike. Labour are a tired disillusioned party devoid of purpose, wheras the Tories have been out in the cold for 13 years so would be less inclined to screw up for a while at least.

It's not perfect, but at least with the current system you can achieve majority governments. Whether it be a Labour govt. or a Tory govt. i'd rather have a government that could make decisions than a squabling coalition where back room deals are the order of the day. That said i do think we need to go more down the swiss route of giving the public more referendums.

Agreed and this is why it's grossly irresponsible to vote Liberal. Our country needs strong government more now than it has done since at least 1979. I'd rather Labour got back in with a majority than have a squabbling coalition and a period of inaction before another election before the years out.

That was different circumstances - our country was on the brink of being conquered, although i'll admit I hadn't factored that in. Like I say i'm basing what I said on what I heard on one of the many political TV programmes that've been on recently and feel free to prove what i've said to be wrong without the wartime coalition.

I think i read somewhere that every coalition government in the last century failed (4 coalitions I think),and it's looking as if the Tories will be the biggest party with the most votes so the Liberals will, by their own criteria, have to form a coalition with them. I forsee that if this arises the tories won't change the voting system and we'll have another election by the year end.

If the Tories win with the most seats and the most votes, but refuse to change the FPTP system, it'll be interesting to see whether the Liberals put their own ambition ahead of the mandate given to the Tories.

Nick you have a PM.

I'm telling you you don't. But you keep spouting your rubbish.

You don't know what you're on about.

It was tongue in cheek....

I put forward my opinion. You might not like it, but at least I try to engage in an adult debate. Anyway I realise that ANS and VFTT will keep spouting the same thing over and over so i'll just put up with it. It's no big deal and ultimately just makes them both look immature.

It's refreshing to see a woman who knows her place - in the kitchen. What are you planning to cook?