alpine_saint

What, you know the S. Yorkshire police were protected over Hillsborough because you and them cracked loads of miners heads a few years before, do you ?

When we've only played 3 games so far ? I interpreted you as meaning if we lose to Arsenal he's gone.

Because of course they couldnt give a sh*t about righting a wrong. So strange to have expected them to care in the first place. Self-pity - check

For me, this one, plus the sale of Cadburys, are the ones that have happened in recent years that REALLY hurt. Fighter planes and chocolate, who would have known they have something in commmon ?

Is it ? I missed the S. Yorks Police shooting people and throwing them in already-dug trenches, or going up to Darth Vader and saying "The Death Star plans are NOT in the main computer"

Dont reckon he's on the brink, but I would be very surprised if doubts didnt start in NCs mind over those subs. losses at Arsenal and Villa may well be the tipping point, I'll concede.

I love the little links conspiracy theorists make...

And the first point ? Your "moron" comments suggest to me I am spot-on about your rhetoric about that paper.

I dont believe I was excusing or justifying; I was attempting to explain.

Wow, more of that disgusting generalisation.....

FFS, here comes the trade unionist mentality... Sod the fact the strike was illegal.

If it were only a principled stand and an appropriate response, I would have expected you to tone down the rhetoric about it seeing as the Sun has made a very strong public apology. As it stands, it sounds more like revenge and the collective self-pity. But WTF, with your political outlook, you wouldnt have been buying it anyway.

EADS will take the knowledge and shut down the manufacturing.

That action will be lost largely (except the Rolls Royce stuff) if this takeover goes ahead.

Good post, gives me something to think about.

Dont know how you think we've dropped 9 points. Two of the teams will be in the top 3 at the end of the season, and most likely all relegation contenders will lose those two corresponding fixtures. Same could be said for Arsenal home too, therefore. Personally reckon we can pick something up, but dont view it as critical. No, the only match where we screwed the pooch was Wigan.

I kind of agree, but this thread is in no kind of mood for that kind of talk, I'm afraid. Pay your fiver and become a full member, I miss your left-field codswallop and Lowe fetish...

Forget the morals for a moment, its a simple case of supply-and-demand, and he gave (most of) the customers what they wanted. He was doing his job, in his eyes. For me, the phone-hacking stuff that caused the NOTW to fold is important in relation to this, because then a Murdoch paper really did cross the boundary of public interest, and got roundly clobbered for it. That story may have even been the beginning of the end for Murdoch's evil empire. This example of public power truly heartens me. The Sun is The Sun. It has its own take on morality and what constitutes just editorial principles. The pertenent question for me is whether it behaved worse in any way over Hillsborough than it does over any other story. In my opinion it didnt. Therefore, considering the nature of the beast, I find your opinion to be an overreaction and, dare I say it, an example of the self-pity which is so grating about Hillsborough. How many intelligent, thoughtful people really thought "GOTCHA !" about the death of 323 Agentinian kids on General Belgrano, once the sensationalism died down ? But it caught the public sentiment for the moment. And 80s football support had such a bad reputation, the headlines of The Sun over Hillsborough caught the public perception of football perfectly, when compared to an upstanding institution like the police.

Re your first point. I scan through online newspapers every day and see repeated servings of codswallop, misrepresentation, lies, bad spelling and bad grammar. Journalism is in a horrendous state nowadays. If you are going to blame The Sun for bad journalism, you should blame them all. As for the live TV pictures, I said before I watched it live in my student house in Manchester with 2 Liverpool supporters, and from what I recall it was impossible to draw any conclusions about cause from what we were seeing.

Incoming !!!

Sorry mate, generalisation and conclusion-jumping is human nature. Especially in the immediate aftermath of traumatic events. You tell me how many people on the street are interested and will research the specifics of the criticisms against the police and certain individuals in their ranks. Probably as many as researched the drunken theiving Scouser accusations. Not many. Anyway, please answer my question. Now you know the scale of the police lying and covering up, do you think the animosity towards The Sun on Merseyside is still deserved ?

Its not only US embassies though, is it ? One of ours got done over a while back too. For me, it says a lot about the country in which it happens. The police and security forces there are suppose to defend and protect embassies, yet they stand back and let it happen. I understand the US ambassador thing. It is striking against the smybol of the US within that country. What I dont like is trashing graves in cemeteries from wars that have nothing to do with current affairs.

The undisputable truth is that the police in S. Yorkshire have acted like complete c**ts. Or should I say "SOME". I assume there will be justice, of some as-of-yet unspecified nature. I am assuming the Twitter post is implying that the negative press the enquiry findings is providing for the police is going to make doing their job a lot harder for all of them, and that the majority of them are honest, hardworking public servants doing an incredibly sh*tty and thankless job under some ridiculous constraints at times. You dont like generalisations about Scousers, seems a little bit unfair to object to police expressing their disapproval of generalisations about them being created in the light of this enquiry. Regards your last line. I still regard the UK as "home", however much I despair of it. I am not sure I will ever be able to shake that off. Maybe you have to live abroad for an extended time to understand. Have you tried it ?

I agree, but the idea of those names being foreign owned is absolutely appaling. Do you think that the UKs only large defence contractor should be independent (or state owned), or at least any foreign interest should come from our closest defence partner of the last century (the US) with which the company has HUGE contracts and projects ? The US could theoretically pull all projects involving BAE if this goes through, which would probably kill the company financially anyway.

I am not disputing the findings of the enquiry in any way whatseover, I simply cannot stand the dwelling in self-pity that comes with this tragedy. It feels intrusive and overbearing. Even now there is talk of the "next step" What is that ? A public stoning of the senior police officers involved ? What do the victims families actually want now ??? Someone has sneered at my 9/11 thread, about the mourning that goes with that. Even now the US is re-evaluating the way it observes 9/11, and a lot of things that happened in past years did not happen this year. And that was only 11 years ago, not quarter of a century. Also, can anybody explain to me sensibly why The Sun comes in for so much abuse over this ? OK, the title "The Truth" is pretty provocative, but their job is to sell papers, and from what I can tell they reported the story as it was told to them by the police, who are clearly the liars in this whole story. Does this enquiry actually not exonerate The Sun in a roundabout way, in that there were also a victim to the horrendous lies of the police ?