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Loving the irony in your post Ducks. Who knew you'd be a feminist too? They're everywhere on this thread!!

And there are plenty of other dumb TV shows of this genre. Here another: http://youtu.be/jhyo8fQQDFk But I'm not complaining about dumb TV shows where the objective is to humiliate people for the benefit of a baying audience. I could, but I'm not. I'm talking about a professional doctor, doing her job, while being shouted to get her tits out, and worse. I'm really confused how you can't see the difference. Now if you want to start up a different debate about how advertisers or TV makers have started going in the opposite direction, and objectifying men (see also the coke ads) as some kind of play on tradition, and this is a concerning development with neither positive outcome for men or women, I'd be happy to get into a discussion with you on that, and I'd be in agreement. My concerns wouldnt match the concerns I have around sexism towards women, because it's a recent development, rather than something in grained in public psyche for decades, but I'd still be concerned could evolve into that, and that it makes the women look as dumb as the men.

Anything for you Bear. http://www.businessinsider.com/these-modern-ads-are-even-more-sexist-than-their-mad-men-era-counterparts-2012-4?op=1&IR=T Happy w*nking!

Objectives: - to help sexists stand in solidarity with other sexists - to educate anti sexists so they know what it feels like to be sexist - to empower sexists, rather than feel downtrodden by the current mass of media criticism Mission: to live in a world where sexists are free to express their views without discrimination.

Turkish is a closet feminist!

So you have That nips that one in the bud - shame!

Thanks sadoldgit for explaining better than me, and from a blokes perspective.

I agree with Pap on that. But I don't think this is that. You only have to hear Cameron say "calm down, dear" to realise this is a classless issue. Look, I love bad behaviour, I love bad jokes, I love football banter, I love blokes. But football is not an exclusive club, nothing should ever be, and women should be allowed to do their job without getting abuse, or intimidation. No one needs to feel bad about this, or feel they're being attacked, but we should alway listen other people's experiences, and learn, and adapt.

Ok, quick answer, then I gotta go. 1. We're making a big deal, because some campaigners have raised the issue. Just because there are other problems does mean this one isn't worthy. One at a time Jeff. 2. Not 'men', jeff. You. Show me an example where I've not showed empathy? It's the one thing I do by default. 3. If women working on the game are saying it's an issue, and they show a couple of examples to illustrate, by default you should be wanting to find out more, rather than dismissing their complaints as 'one offs' and 'I haven't experienced it'. I still don't understand the relevance of Take Me Out, that show is bloody awful on all levels. But it's also very scripted, and most people who appear on it, are looking for fame, not a partner. 4. I don't have an issue with porn. 5. People giving examples of women who don't think its an issue - I have no information about the context of their lives. But enough women publically complain about the issue for them to be taken seriously. This isn't a numbers competition. One example is enough. 6. 'Get your tits out for the lads' as an isolated chant could be viewed as mildly amusing, or not. I like football humour. If it were sung to me on mass, I'd probably laugh. But a young girl, first job in the industry, running onto the pitch, might be really embarrassed at hearing that sung at her. She shouldn't have to put up with it. You're trying to protect an antiquated way of thinking. And the trouble is, these things are rarely isolated. Look at the Richard Keys stuff. Listen to the individuals in the crowd who took it to the next step. Thats the culture we're nurturing here.

You've still not told me the relevance of Take Me Out on this topic? Jeff, I'm struggling with you on this. This is a complex topic with no right or wrong answers. But your determination to follow one trail of thought without any capability of listening to, considering, or empathising with the crux of the issue, while throwing in the oddest defences of your point of view is a bit too much for me to get my head around. Turkish called me a "dopy cow" (sic) for thinking otherwise, but I'm not treating this as argument for winning. I'm just putting a point of view out there that may or make not make people think, or view things from a different perspective. If you want to not do that, you're very welcome. But drawing me into an argument to prove me wrong, isn't going to happen.

Yes, I do think so. I'd not seen that article before, but I do think the current educational system with emphasis on coursework rather than exams, is in favour of girls. And I don't necessarily think that's a good thing - boys under performing could have all kinds of future implications. There needs to be a happy balance. That said, we're still massively behind in terms of girls studying the sciences (follow Alice Roberts on Twitter, who frequently discusses). I'm in the creative industry which has a big shortage of woman - whereas at degree level it's about 50/50. Sports - so many girls involved at school, but then they disappear. What happens? They are all complex issues without easy answers. But at the moment, the emphasis on women isn't to give them 'advantages', it's because there is something wrong in the first place. Why do we have so many car ads with a random lady in a bikini? Because the majory of the ad industry is male. This will be the big change over the next generation because the advertisers are figuring out their demographics, and where the money is: women. I feel very positive about the direction this is heading, because I think many people (men and women) are starting to recognise the issue (well not so many on here, but OK!) the world is changing, and even football will be a part of that. And that doesn't necessarily go against the interests of white working class men - they're not the problem isn't the first place, and a group that actually needs a bit of standing up for in their own right. Sorry, I've rambled. And I'm certainly no expert on this topic. Oh and I hope you haven't scared KRG off from contributing to topics like this. That will make me very sad (and I'll blame you Bear!!!)

I agree, and much better than fire walking... Bring on Chelsea!

Corrected. Spent so much time on Alderweireld and Djuricic that other names suffered.

Hmm. Yes. I just kept waiting for Zooey Deschanel to pop up and say "hey guys, whatya doing?" Never happened.

Have you been on it Bearsy?!

Yeah, but I think Pelle, since the ski trip, is going to coming back firing... He'll get another 6 goals. I didn't want to go too extreme and get mocked on here!

LOL! Another thread for crass jokes/comments about women! Just what we need! We haven't had a comment yet saying when is International Men's Day yet. I predict #8

PS. You've not pointed out, or even clarified what you think the hypocrisy is on this thread. That might be a good starting place, so I can understand what you mean.

Wome learn to not react and not draw attention to themselves and make it worse, from a pretty young age. Look at Sian Massey's reaction in this clip. She smiles. Does that mean it was acceptable, or that she liked it?

Oh yes, so she is! I'm such a big Katharina fan girl.

Oh, I couldn't see pictures of Katharina. What numbers?

Lol. I'd like to see Djuricic in that team though. Partly because I like typing his name.

Not half as bad as the film I'm watching right now - Let's Be Cops. Yikes!

Actually, I'm being too cautious - 7 goals!!

Aw, what a sweetheart. He seems a really intelligent guy. I predict 5 more goals from Mane before the end of the season...