Wes Tender

The number of points earned by an individual player is only a measure of his importance to the team and there can't have been many players in World football even who made such an individual impact as Bale. The point being that although a replacement player would have undoubtedly have made some contribution to their points tally, it probably wouldn't have come close to Bale's. Lambert was a very important player for us too, but if we didn't have him, he would not be that difficult to replace with another striker capable of scoring the same number of goals or more, especially given that we are not short of lolly to spend.

I agree that without Bale, his replacement would no doubt have contributed something and I said as much in a previous post. Undoubtedly Bale also saved them some goals against when he defended too. Has anybody claimed that we are better than Spurs right now? That wouldn't be sustainable as an opinion for sure. But depending on who we sign and who they lose/sign as replacements, I don't think that we are a couple of years behind them. We play very well as a team and hopefully the new players will continue to uphold that great team spirit that has carried us this far. Equally, new players joining Spurs will also have to adapt to their team ethos too and it seems that they might be making quite a few changes themselves. But the loss of Bale would be a catastrophe for them, as his contribution has been key to their success and if they didn't have him, we would automatically move significantly closer to them.

So Shaw and Schneiderlin not good enough to make the Spurs team? You're having a laugh, aren't you? Without Bale, Spurs would have been 21 points lighter in 8th position. The rest of their team only managed 37 goals between them. I wouldn't be creaming myself particularly if we were in for Defoe, Adebayor and Dempsey up front. I'd also have Cork in there alongside Schneiderlin too, but Wanyama if we got him would also have me preferring our midfield to theirs. The point is that we are not the ocean apart that you suggest and that depending on who they lose and replace and also who we bring in, the gap could well be much smaller.

Me neither. Bale's goals gave them an extra 21 points last season. OK, had he not played, then AN Other player might have scored a few goals instead, but there can be few top teams who placed such heavy reliance on one player as them. Whether Spurs remain the force they have been these past couple of seasons is rather dependent on whether they manage to keep him, on the face of it. There comes a point when all of these super-duper top teams in European football have squads full to brimming with star players. Most of them are already in that position and just need to replace players who leave, grow old or receive career threatening injuries. There really aren't that many places available and probably far more players of a decent standard currently, or with untapped potential to be a future star than there are places available for them at the top level.

I'm not surprised when fans of other clubs express amazement that lil' ole Southampton are bidding for players like this and think it must be a joke. But what is disappointing is that some of our own fans think that players like him are out of our league. Even sports journalists who ought to know their stuff are guilty of this attitude, writing off our bid purely on the basis that Napoli have expressed an interest in Damiao, when as you say, they have been rumoured to be exploring several other striker options who are also of a similar standing. Patently they don't need all of those targets and is Damiao even their top target? As it stands, apart from Spurs whose interest seems to have cooled, we are the only club offering him Premiership football. We wouldn't be entering the fray if we couldn't afford him and in any event bidding for him raises our profile and signals our intent if we don't get him and move on to another player of equal calibre. If nothing else, people are starting to sit up and take notice of us, so that all of those on here who express the opinion that nobody else in World football has ever heard of Southampton ought to be pleased that we are doing something to change that perception.

You and Dorkish believe what you like. I assure you that I didn't tear up my ST at any time in the past in a fit of rage. If you don't believe me, then I'm not about to lose any sleep over it. It's only you two after all, not anybody I have any respect for.

Your posts demonstrate otherwise. I've never ripped up my ST, Barry. You must be getting confused; something that appears to happen to you with increasing regularity. I've continued to follow Saints down to the third division and back up again, so why would I stop supporting them now? Lowe isn't returning is he? I'm perfectly happy with what Cortese has brought us, but it seems to be you throwing your toys out of your pram over his shortcomings that appear to be only in your head.

It must be an awful experience following such a rubbish team, eh? Thinking of switching your allegiance to Swansea, are we?

What has where they came last year, or what they won, have anything to do with this coming season? Is citing Michu yet another gaping hole in your assertion that a club must spend mega-bucks if they are serious about qualifying for the CL?

Thee news is full of rumours, Barry. Didn't you notice? Well, we'll have to see whether we finish above them or not, won't we? Possible transfers are what we are after too. But I wasn't aware that their possible transfers were more high-profile than ours.

Fantastic! They're going to set the Premiership alight with their £8 million expenditure on these European household name players. But I thought that your position was that the clubs who had the costliest squads would end up the highest in the league? But I'm sure that their Chairman is above criticism, because he is probably content to pay bribes to these players' agents to secure them.

So you base your evidence that because Cortese won't be blackmailed into being screwed by a player's agent, that is conclusive evidence that he won't spend the money needed to avance the team? Last time I looked, Wanyama was still being pursued by us and could yet still sign for us. If he does, will you then apologise profusely for going off at half cock and admit that the basis for your assertion was just idiotic?

Those stats don't make much sense in terms of the positions placed next to them. Can you please explain how the positions were arrived at? Whilst you're at it, please give me an answer to my request for evidence that Cortese will not spend the money on the players we would need to purchase to gain a place in Europe. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that we weren't about to sell Shaw. Surely the signal has already been sent out loud and clear that clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, United, City, cannot just wave a chequebook in our direction and expect that we have to sell our best young players to them anymore. If a really stupid offer was made, then any club in the World is a selling club if the player wants to move. Regarding whether we can move above Everton, Spurs, or Liverpool, it is a bit premature to laugh before a ball has been kicked this coming season. Spurs would have been 8th if they had not had Bale's goals last season. I'm delighted to hear that you are confident that Martinez will do as good a job at Everton as Moyes did. Makes you wonder why United didn't sign him up instead of Moyes, eh? Liverpool's position last season relied heavily on Suarez, who might leave. But if they only managed to achieve 7th again, I wouldn't deem it to beyond the realms of possibility that we could end up above them. So a bit premature in many ways to make predictions based on so many factors that might alter. But as I say, evidence to back up your assertion that Cortese will not splash the cash is eagerly awaited.

Thanks for bumping this thread, Trousers. We should not forget the part that Markus Liebherr played in saving our club in its darkest hour. We've come a long way in a short time since, further than most would have imagined when he and Cortese arrived.

Where is your evidence to back up this absurd statement of yours?

Wrong. The only way that we will achieve consistent European football is by reaching 4th place or higher in the Premiership each year. Whether that can only be achieved by spending more than our rivals or not is debateable. Happily, it is not a given that the most expensively assembled team runs away with the division. Often a team comprising of expensive individuals gets beaten by one consisting of less expensive players who play better as a team, i.e. the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Furthermore, one does not need to spend mega-bucks on players already at the club, those who we have brought through our own academy. Then what needs to be recognised, is that the squad size at any club is not infinite; that when the top teams of Europe have filled their allocation, tweaked their teams so that they consider that they have improved on what they even had before, then there are still plenty of really good quality players out there. Including some who are diamonds still waiting to be unearthed, who can be bought relatively cheaply, but who could still set the Premiership alight this coming season and at the end of it be considered as good as some of those current stars in the £20 million plus bracket. This strategy requires astute scouting and negotiation skills. Does Southampton and Cortese have those? Yes, I think so.

Right folks, Fry's on board and accepts the possibility that we could end up 4th - 6th. What's the situation between West Ham and United this season, CB ?

How old are you? I'd guess about 7 based on the above. If not your actual age, then at least your mental age.

What an idiotic statement. It's quite up there with some of your very best.

You would die laughing, but I expect that you'd probably deserve to be hung. Fry would die being sarcastic to the hangman about his dress sense. The trouble with some people is that they lack the imagination to accept that although some things might seem extremely improbable, that nonetheless they are possible. As I've already said, my position depends on us signing the likes of those players. Beyond that, those other factors I mentioned could alter the prospects of those so called untouchable elite aristocrats whose teams seemingly comprise players of superhuman powers, so that whenever they are beaten by a club outside of this elite little club, it must have been a fluke. The other team will never have been better on the day, it will have to be the case that the elite team played badly.

And the other side of this coin is that equally some might make fools of themselves by their assumptions that there is an untouchable aristocracy in the English game that we will never be worthy of challenging, because their 11 players on the pitch at any given time will always be better than ours. And although we managed to beat Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool (presumably the aristocracy you refer too) last season, we will not be capable of beating Chelsea and City now that they will have improved their squads and their managers this season. We might not finish above them, but the intent signalled by the calibre of these prospective signings is increasingly pointing in the direction of us not being that far behind them. But I take on board that Newcastle and Villa will probably be above us because they couldn't possibly repeat their poor last season's place and these are also debatably two of English football's aristocrats, albeit rather in the past nowadays. We'll have to improve the squad to hope to hold our 14th place? Pah!

I started out by saying that provided we made those marquee signings and kept our star players there was the chance of us getting as high as 4th and that 6th was eminently possible. The other things I listed might legislate in our favour and assist that possibility. It all seems a fantasy because like many on here, I'm not used to us being expected to make the sort of signings that we are connected with, signings which could see us potentially above the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Spurs. But as I say, if we made these signings, that situation is a distinct possibility. Most will say unlikely. I say not beyond the realms of possibility.

If we made those signings and kept our other star players, there is very little reason that we couldn't get 4th at best and 6th eminently possible. Apart from the caveat about us signing those players and them bedding in well, factors that might affect other teams at the top could come into play. Amongst them will be how Man Utd fare under Moyse, how Everton fare without him, whether Spurs lose Bale, Liverpool lose Suarez, new managers at Chelsea and Man City, etc. Naturally, one wouldn't expect the likes of Mourinho to flounder at Chelsea, nor the new bloke at City, but who knows? I'd like to think that at our top strength after this level of signings, we could potentially go ahead of Liverpool, perhaps Spurs and Everton. That seems a bit of a fantasy, but it isn't totally beyond the realms of possibility.

Surely the opposite is the case, that the higher profile we become, the less likelihood there is that other clubs will believe they have a chance of pinching our best youth products and indeed the less inclined those youngsters will be towards having their heads turned by other teams.

I make Smirking Saints total 39 million.