Wes Tender

Caught out spouting rubbish denigrating Baker's plans without the faintest idea of what they are, is what I said. And it is disingenuous claiming that the ERG have had two years to come up with a plan. The timescale for this planning for an alternative to the Chequers deal began only when it became clear with the launch of that deal that the devious May had stabbed David Davis in the back when he had spent his time since the referendum preparing a Canada +++ deal, while all that time May had been plotting with Ollie Robbins to come up with that awful Chequers deal May had always stated that no deal was better than a bad deal, and then came up with the worst deal possible, to the extent that many Brexiteers even considered that staying in the EU was a better option than becoming a vassal colony of the EU. Now, it could be that this was always the plan, that Commie Ollie had advised Remainer May that if they made the deal so bad, they could say to the country that they had tried their best to get a better deal, but it was not possible, that there should be another referendum with the choice of this awful deal, leaving with EU with no deal (or more correctly leaving on WTO terms) or staying in the EU. The ERG's time and efforts were not wasted in their vote of no confidence in her. It made clear that the Party outside of those in the Government's pay was unified against her, so her authority was considerably weakened. It is weakened because a majority of Party members oppose her deal and would prefer WTO terms by two to one. She has a very poor standing as leader of the party too. It was weakened further by the Labour vote of no confidence in her. On Tuesday, her plan will suffer potentially the biggest defeat in political history, and then her position will have become untenable. There is still time for her to be replaced by somebody who is a Brexit supporter, who will fill the cabinet with fellow Brexiteers and take an altogether tougher line than May has done. That will not be difficult, as May's negotiation strategy is an object lesson in how NOT to succeed. The most stupid part of the strategy is to offer £39 billion just to begin talks on a decent trade deal, rather than stipulating that the £39 billion is only payable following an acceptable deal. Despite all this febrile conjecture about a series of votes in the Commons to establish a majority preference, talk about forcing a GE, extending the Article 50 deadline, second (third) referendum on our membership, the default position is still that we leave the EU at 11pm on WTO terms if no deal is arranged with the EU. Currently, that is now the best option for us, unless a Canada +++ deal can be rushed through as an alternative. May is in the unfortunate position that she has shot her bolt on that outcome,what with her stupid talk about no other options on the table and that she had also bad-mouthed WTO terms. She can hardly come out now and talk about the advantages of either. May is making herself look increasingly ridiculous by begging the Union barons to give their support for her deal in return for concessions on workers' rights and conditions. The previous Tory female PM would be turning over in her grave. As the Commons has a substantial majority of Remoaners increasingly intent on thwarting the democratically expressed will of their electorate, it is hard to see how the situation can be resolved except by leaving on WTO terms. If MPs decide that by thwarting Brexit because they think that they know better than their constituents what is best for them, then they have a very rude awakening awaiting them come the next election.

As I said, the point might not be as clear to hard remoaners like you. Essentially it is that some companies, especially those in manufacturing industry, will use Brexit as an excuse to shift production into countries with low wage work forces. Just as happened with Ford production at Southampton.

https://brexitcentral.com/dont-fooled-brexit-deal-creates-triple-lock-shackle-uk-brussels-forever/ Yet another anonymous Civil Servant confirming what a lousy deal the incompetent May has cobbled together with the aid of Olly Robbins, Barnier and Weyand

His point seems perfectly clear to me and probably everybody else who is not a hard remoaner.

The usual MO we've come to expect from you, Shurlock. Get caught out for spouting rubbish and lash out with insults. Make out that anybody who disagrees with you must be a bit thick, thus massaging your ego and implying that you're the only one who knows what he's talking about. Your area of expertise might be economics, but it certainly isn't the machinations of political wrangling. What you failed to recognise from him not disclosing his plans just yet, is that the right time will be after the defeat of May's "plan" next Tuesday. When those solutions he will propose are known, that will be the time for you to comment on them, not when you know diddly squat about what they are.

So he is planning some "grandstanding" in your words, which is "proper hard", and yet you have not the slightest idea what that grandstanding entails, because neither you nor the Guardian know what those plans are. It isn't like you to make assertions without concrete grounds for them.

Which part of his plans were you referring to?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/is-there-a-secret-plan-to-create-an-eu-army Way back in 2016, a month before the referendum, the Guardian assured us that there was no way that there would be an EU Army. It was a Brexiteers' fantasy, they said. Pigs will fly first. More Remoaner lies, eh?

Fair enough, you find my insults to be boring and I find yours to be juvenile. I'm so pleased that I bring a bit of lighthearted hilarity into your otherwise dull and humourless life. I find your opinions boring though.

I'm not yet incontinent, thank you for your concern. I appreciate though that a lot of your contribution to this thread is p*ss and wind, so you have my sympathy. I speak as I find. If you don't wish to be treated like a juvenile, then stop acting like one. I don't have to insult others or receive insults in my private life, as that is quite a bit different to posting on a football forum where those who do not share one's views can be keyboard warriors and not face the consequences. This subtle difference seems not to have occurred to you. If you find me boring, then put me on ignore. Again, that solution seems to have gone right over your head.

I asked Verbal several times to divulge his age, as I only had his mental age to go on based on his infantile posts. I have to conclude that you must be even younger than him. Still in short trousers, are you?

Pathetic

Did the jibe that you're acting in an infantile manner upset you? Aw diddums.

You're like a stuck record. Nearly your bedtime, sonny. You won't want to be too tired for school tomorrow

It has been clear from the start that either through ignorance of how negotiations are properly handled, or by a deliberate ploy to make our leaving as unattractive as possible, May and her remoaner dominated cabinet don't want us to leave the EU. As well as throwing away any negotiating strength by telling the other side that we will not walk away from any deal no matter how bad, we are also proposing to pay £39 billion for the privilege, without conditions applied to it that an acceptable free trade deal will be the price for it. Tell the EU that the full £39 billion will only be paid when the deal is signed, and that will concentrate their minds wonderfully. Furthermore, we have a substantial majority of remoaner MPs who voted to enact the referendum, to trigger Article 50, stood on manifestos promising to deliver on the decision of the referendum to leave the EU, and yet they are doing everything they can to renege on that promise. This truly is the most incompetent bunch of Parliamentarians that I have ever seen in my life, and they deserve everything they get come the next election. In the meantime, if there is the rise of more populist political parties and civil disorder in the streets, then it will be their fault.

This was predicted By Guido before Christmas https://order-order.com/2018/12/27/bercow-thwart-brexit-meaningful-vote-defeated/ Bercow's anti-Brexit position is well know. If he allows Brexit to be thwarted by some underhand chicanery, then he will have severely undermined the electorate's trust in our system of Parliamentary democracy and the position of Speaker.

Go on, provide your own demonstration graphs of both in context. You know you want to. I make my request not because I argue against your opinion, but merely on the basis that it is the easiest thing to denigrate another's opinion with just a few insulting words, without bothering to pull it apart with reasoned argument as to why it is faulty. That is just plain lazy.

Jeff: So there we have it, what we always deduced from his infantile insults. Jeff is in fact a child. Best go to bed so you are fresh enough for school tomorrow, sonny. And in other news, I understand that 34 MPs have felt the need to write a letter to Lord Hall, the Director General of the BBC politely requesting that he asks his presenters to stop referring to leaving the EU without a trade deal as "crashing out over a cliff edge".

You really are a low life, aren't you?

When we have left and are thriving, it is you lot who are going to look really atupid, just as many of the same people did when we didn't join the Euro.

Two and a half years later and you're still *****ing about how unfair it is that the thickos voted to leave your beloved EU. Boo Hoo.

You know nothing about me, my life and my family. I have had a long time experience of how our lives were before we joined and a long time after, so I suspect that I am probably better placed to make a judgement of the difference than you. I am also very well traveled around the World, so I also have that perspective too.

The young are the ones who will benefit most from us being out of the EU and prospering from the new golden age of free trade with the developing world. People my age have had to endure over 40 years of the increasingly failing EU. There you go again, you remoaners; patronisingly labelling a lot of Brexiteers as not understanding how much the World has moved on, and yet it is they who wish to expand their horizons beyond the more parochial bloc on our doorstep. The EU doesn't pay much attention to us in their trade negotiations with other blocs/countries. In the EU, we are just one country among 28 and the main considerations would have been what was best for France and Germany before what was good for us.

I've already told you, it isn't worth wasting my time with you over this.