sadoldgit

What I am trying to get across to you is that the chances of beating them in a battle is zero. There is no battle with terrorist cells. There is just terrorism and counter terrorism. The Amercians failed to beat the VC. We failed to beat the IRA. You end up with an impasse at which you then start a dialogue. There will be no D Day, no Battle of Britain, just more individual drone strikes and suicide bombers and beheadings. Where will that get us?

How exactly do you think a "faction" is going to over run the world (when they have finished their tea with me of course)?

Now you are just being silly.

An extremist faction. They are still people aren't they? I expect that some might have felt the armies that we sent into Iran to be an extremist faction too. And how did we get on with those weapons of mass destruction by the way. Yep, nothing to do with the oil was it? Cause and effect. Weren't the IRA an extremist faction? Should we have introduced Northern Ireland to Shock & Awe? The extremist faction you talk about are all over the place. Carpet bombing will not get rid of them.

I didn't say that. And at that point we didn't know about the death camps.

Yep, The Guardian really excelled themselves with those didn't they

So you think that ISIS will invade Britain? It may be pointless in the sense that you do not agree, so what? We both have different opinions.

Please do. I would take it as a complement. How many millions of people died in the 2nd WW? Wouldn't any humane person do all they could to prevent such slaughter? But you talk about destroying a people which is exactly what the Nazis were all about.

Yes it did take a while. I have a life other than wittering away on a PC. This business about being backed into a corner and flailing sounds quite aggressive to me. This isn't a battle you know, just an exchange of opinions on the Internet. I don't think that in either case their deaths broke resistance. It was months of fighting that broke their armies that led to their deaths. I believe that some of the German High Command were looking to negotiate a peace before Hitler killed himself. It doesn't alter my point that conflicts do not go on forever and that at some point people end up getting around a table. We had a land war in the Middle East not so long ago and look where that left us. If you are proposing another one will it really end the problems between The West and those who oppose the West? This isn't as straightforward as the 2nd WW. I doubt if there were many people in Britain becoming radical Nazis in their bedrooms.

You don't know unless you try.

He did. It doesn't mean that he would have rather have war than peace does it? Flailing?

I don't think that he felt the need to go to war. Wasn't it Chamberlain who gave Hitler the ultimatum? And I expect it was something that Parliament felt was unavoidable rather than one man deciding lets do it. No one in their right mind wants war. The First World War was ended by negotiations and there were negotiations at the end of the second war world. At some point people have to talk is my point. You say that they never will. I don't know how you can be so sure.

I don't advocate waiting around and I don't advocate doing nothing. I simply said that all we are doing at the moment is perpetuating the problem. Muslims are still being radicalised in this country and front pages like that of The Sun yesterday do nothing to help. All this talk of "crushing" is all very well but The West has to take some responsibility for what is happening. This is not just about us being the "Infidel." There are a body of people who clearly see The West as a threat and are taking steps to combat that threat. I hate what is happening just as much as the next person - the beheadings, the suicide bombs, the destroying of ancient monuments. But they didn't just wake up one day and say lets kill all the Infidels. The West has played into the hands of the religious fanatics and does so every time it launches missiles into populated areas. Collateral damage it is called when total innocents are blown apart. Doesn't that make us just as bad as them in terms of the moral high ground?

Churchill is famously quoted as saying "Jaw jaw, not war war."

You have totally missed my point.

It takes a lot more than one or two people to start and wage war. They need support. Those underlings you talk about were no less culpable or dangerous than Hitler, Goebells and Mussolini.

And what if, as quickly as we take out the main players, others take their place? Much of the organisation is an underground movement. How do you crush that? It sounds good in principle but I really cant see it working as long as you have the underground movement. You can crush people, cruising an idea is more difficult. Especially if part of the problem is a West that is just as entrenched in its own dogma and has sold its soul to oil.

There have been many regimes through history that have been strict in their dogma only to soften their stance in time. I am not saying it will happen, but I am saying that nothing is impossible.

Well, I guess we will see.

Quite right too. Although they seem to have forgiven Mel Gibson for the liberties he took with the William Wallace story in Braveheart!

An ex barmaid from my local has just started as trainee cabin crew for BA. She posted on FB this morning that yesterday they were trained on what to do if a fire broke out on board a 777 at Vegas. Spooky huh?

Play it down if you like sure, but this thread is about being bigger than that and saying well done for setting a new record. Hopefully he will do something about his record in Finals next year. At some point someone will set a new record, and people will be typing away on their keyboards slagging him off too (unless he plays for Southampton of course )

Yes I did. I used to work in London in the 70s when the bombings were going on. It wasn't very nice. I wouldn't advocate ignoring ISIS and clearly they arent going to go away, but at some point both sides are going to have to realise that constant strikes and counter strikes are not the answer. You are right, something will happen as a result of the recent drone strike, and that is my point. It doesn't actually solve anything. More beheadings and more drone strikes. When does it stop?

I know that they are not the IRA. I was just trying to explain that people, no matter how entrenched, can get to the point where they are prepared to give a little to get something other than death. I don't think for one minute that they would just stop - I am sure they are as suspicious of us as we are of them. But they are not going to win and nor are we (IMHO) so what is the alternative? We go on killing each other? Maybe we do?

So you are proposing a land war? Ok but how do you deal with the cells of terrorists scattered all over the place? I don't live in fear of an invasion by ISIS but I do live in fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber.