sadoldgit

Why would you want them to stop believing in their religion? They have as much right to theirs as Christians do. I am sure you will know that the Koran does not preach the destruction of others and that most Muslims are peaceful and respectful of other just as most Christians are. The United Nations, European Union etc came after many wars and through negotiation to try and make the world a safer place to live in. We need to find a way to do that in the Middle East without killing everybody. If we can sit around table with the perpetrators of the 2nd World War surely we can sit around a table with the perpetrators of the current problems at some point?

He didn't score all of his goals against San Marino though did he? He plays for England and we want England to win don't we? We don't have to like him but if he does his job we have a better chance of winning something. And for all the talk of players not giving a toss about playing for their country, he does seem to care.

Okay, so how do you propose we destroy them? Drones and missiles don't come cheap and there members live all over the place in lots of different communities. The USA found to their cost that they couldn't defeat guerrillas in Vietnam. These were fanatics too, willing to destroy and to die for their cause. You want to destroy them all fine, but for every one you kill you create another and you end up being no better and just perpetuating the suffering for the people caught in the middle as you call them. I really don't think this is a conflict that either side can win.

I wonder if Rooney would get more credit if he were a Southampton player and didn't play for Manchester United? I am not a fan but he does deserve respect for his achievement.

They were killing Protestants in order to get what they wanted weren't they? If you have done any work on negotiating you will know that no matter how intractable situations might seen, you work to find common ground. ISIS will know that you cannot live in a constant state of war. Yes, the headstrong will want to fight to the death but in all conflicts there comes a point where the leaders understand that they have to find a way of living with the "enemy." There are extreme Christians just as there are extreme Muslims. The moderates need to be heard and they need to stand up to the extremists, on both sides of the divide.

Just try thinking a bit harder. Earlier on I said it is what lies behind the headlines that helps perpetuate the issues between the West and between Islam. Why do you think that people of a different religion want to kill us? Is it just because our women dress differently and we eat fast food and don't go to church on Sundays? They see us as a threat to their way of life (no wonder given what happen in Desert Storm) just as we seem them as a threat to our way of life. You have no doubt heard the phrase "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?" Something is happening in this country that is radicalising some members of our population to want to take action against the rest. If you think that treating the deaths of people as something from a computer game as The Sun did the other day helps the situation then fair play. I just think it helps to foster the problems that we are trying to eradicate. All to sell a few more newspapers. Sorry Jackanory but I think your newspaper is scum.

We ended up negotiating with the IRA. We ended up negotiating with many people that we fought against when we were losing our Empire including the United States. If the only way to end this is to kill all militant Muslims, doesn't that strike you as a) impossible and b) totally xenophobic? If you read my last post again I say that most Muslims want to live in peace. I think most people want to live in peace.

You are spending far too much time in that Batcave. I was talking about The Sun's use of comic headlines. As Whitey points out - it was "Gotcha" then and "Wham! Bam! Thank You Cam" now. It has nothing to do with Argentinians. It is about The Sun. Do keep up!

Many Vikings came to live here and took our religion. Scandinavians have gave up their old Gods for Christianity. The Crusades were a "Holy Way." Jihad means "Holy War." Christians are fighting Muslims.

Tell that to the Christians or the Muslims or anybody else that follows religion.

This is entirely the problem. We are right, they are wrong. It is the same with the Arabs and the Jews, with us and the IRA, it goes on and on. At some point all conflicts have to be resolved around a table and it will have to happen here - if it doesn't the killing will go on forever. It is not about who is right and who is wrong. It is about learning to live together and there are plenty of Muslims who want to live peacefully. If by weak and stupid you mean that we are pathetic for not nuking Syria, then I am happy to be weak and stupid. Unfortunately your standpoint just perpetuates death and misery.

As you worked for The Sun I can understand why you always support it, but please do not use their tactics on me. Where did I say that Brooks was found guilty? She has been a part of the Murdoch culture for some time so my point is that he is happy to continue to use "his" people with "his" methods of selling newspapers. Being popular means nothing. One Direction are popular, does that make their music better than The Beatles, The Stones, Beethoven, Mozart, Bob Marley? No it just means that a lot of people currently like them, like The Osmonds and The Bay City Rollers. Whether their music will endure is another matter. I have nothing against White Van Man, I used it as a generic term. If you work in advertising you would know what I mean. As for readership, we have had this debate before, anyone who has seen the front page of The Sun is classified as a "reader." The Sun still employs MacKenzie as a columnist as I am sure you know. It also employs Katie Hopkins. Good luck with supporting their employment by the wonderful Sun. While we are at it perhaps you would also like to defend Murdoch's cynical move in closing the News of the World and then publishing a Sunday Sun soon after?

We think that we are right. That we have God on our side. We think they are wrong, that their God doesn't exist and that they are deluded. They are a threat to us. They think they are right. That they have God on their side. They think we are wrong, that our God doesn't exist and that we are deluded. We are a threat to them. The killing will go on and on as it did in all of these other conflicts over the years until someone has the common sense to say enough. At some point it will happen, but how many have to die in the meantime?

I really don't think I said that The Sun has influenced UK Muslims to go and train as extremists. My point was that front pages like that do not help the situation and will only add to the problems between us. As you point out, some are "radicalised" over here and the sort of thing being propagated by The Sun plays into the hands of those who are doing the recruiting. There are Muslims who feel under threat and the "gotcha" attitude isn't going to help them feel any better. Some of those will want to do something about it. That is why I said it is about what lies behind The Sun's headline. You would like to think that Jingoism went out in the last century but not according to The Sun.

waste

I agree. The £12m on Long can only really be judged effectively when he ends his contract with us. And we can all say now what an amazing bargain Ricky was for us at just over £1m. When we signed Osvaldo we thought it was a decent signing for the money but look how that turned out. You can only know for sure if you got your money's worth when that player has provided a service, anything before is based on your expectancy.

That is not what I am talking about as well you know. I am not talking about dealing with individuals, I am talking about ending this conflict. If you really think we will win it by taking out one here and one there then good luck with that. No one will win this conflict which is why, at some point, the talking will have to start. By the way, look at the numbers. We spend thousands on a drone and take out one or two people. They spend a few bob on a suicide vest and take out dozens. If you were playing the odds, unless we start using nukes, who do you think could keep it going longer for less? You have been involved in the military, I don't need to tell you how hard it is to fight a guerrilla war, which is exactly what we are up against.

Or the fact that we have killed goodness knows how many Muslims over the years because we thought that they were hiding non existence weapons of mass destruction? Makes it easier to recruit wouldn't you say? Not forgetting the Middle Ages where we sent thousands of God fearing Christians to the Middle East to butcher those nasty Muslims. Good to know we have the moral higher ground.

Ah yes, the two World Wars. What did Churchill call it? Splendid Isolation? You took your time joining in those didn't you. I think many of the "Limeys" on here who have contributed to the debate have spent time in America and have a good idea how the American culture works (that's another thing about us Limeys, we do like to travel). We understand (because we are well educated and well travelled) that it is not a good idea to let people loose with guns. We exercise our right to free speach to articulate our problem with the carnage that goes on in a part of the world we all share that happens to be called America that is caused by people with guns. We do this because we are concerned about the well being of our fellow man. We also don't want to be shot by some psychopath (or police officer) when we go on holiday there.

We have negotiated with all kinds of sociopaths before and are still doing so now. How many conflicts have ended with only the total annihilation of the other? Do you really think it is possible to wipe ISIS out? It isn't that simple. And they aren't rushing out to joining ISIS because of a Sun headline, they are rushing out and joining ISIS because of what lies behind the Sun headline.

That is a fair point although Keepers often have a longer career.

Perhaps every player should have his transfer value and wages agreed by an independent body? That would upset Levy! As you say, it makes for interesting reading.

We were at war with Germany. This conflict is a lot less black and white. We may be at war with terrorists but they don't wear convenient uniforms and they don't come from just one country. The rules of engagement are a lot more cloudy than they used to be.

Picking up on the point of annihilating ISIS. For every terrorist we kill, we create more. We will never annihilate them because they are everywhere. The good old days like Waterloo where armies faced each other on a battlefield and the outcome was decisive are long gone. I am sure the people who recruit future terrorists will have a field day with the front page of The Sun today as they will every time we launch a drone and cause "collateral damage."

Take someone like JRod. He wasn't the finished article when we bought him but we could all see how he improved. I don't think you could see that development with Walcott. and I accept that the numerous injuries probably have not helped him.