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tantrum

I hope that Boruc plays. Apart from the added advantage to us I miss Irene on here.

Sammy Davis Jnr was gay.

They are only meaningless if you come from the standpoint that discrimination is not an issue for those people. I agree that the word "hate" is not ideal. Nor is "phobic." I don't think that people who discrimination against others have a fear of them necessarily. Hate Crime is a catch all term. For recording purposes religious crimes are recorded separately to those against gay, transsexual and bi sexual cases. They are categorised when the case contains clear elements relating to a persons sexuality, religious persuasion etc. If a person is murdered because they are gay it will be recorded as a "hate crime." If a person is bullied because they are gay it will be recorded as a "hate crime." The stats are meaningful because they show the amount of recorded cases specific in that category. I say recorded because clearly, just as in sexual assaults, common assaults and many other crimes, they don't all get reported. To dismiss the figure just because some might be false is misleading. The figures relate to successful prosecutions - or at least the figures that I used to produce when I worked for the CPS did. Unsuccessful prosecutions were recorded but not used in the stats. It is very easy for people who don't suffer from discrimination to sit around and pretend it is not an issue. Clearly it wont be for them. The important feedback comes from those who don't wont to come out because they are afraid of the reaction. The fact that there are hardly any openly gay men in football tells you what you need to know when compared to gay men in other sports and other professions. My osteopath is gay and changed his name when he came out because he was worried about how it would affect his business. This was only a few years ago. If gay people are saying that they still suffer from discrimination then who are we to say that they are not? To dispute the figures of crimes committed against them is discrimination. If someone has a criminal act committed against them just because of their sexuality or gender then that is a "hate crime." The figures are only meaningless for those who wish to pretend that these things do not exist on the scale that they clearly do.

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I know plenty of gay people who feel perfectly comfortable in the company of people who are not gay. You seem to be saying that they are "different." They may have a different sexuality but they are still human beings!

I was just reading that there were over 6000 "hate crimes" recorded against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people last year - and those are only the ones that were reported. Stonewall are saying that although we have made great strides in stamping out racism and sexism, there is still some way to go with discrimination in this area.

Why shouldn't they do it for noble reasons if they want to? Emily Davison, the Suffragette, stepped in front of a racehorse and died for her beliefs. She did that for others. The more that famous footballers came out, the easier it will be for others.

Who cares? We are not a petty club and moved on a long time ago.

What an classless individual he is. So Boro were lucky? They had a number of decent chances in the match and deserved to go to penalties. If you miss 3 penalties you deserve to lose. Man up and learn to be graceful in defeat. Ar se.

Like others I was disappointed on the team selection. Ron said he was going for it so fine, but play your strongest team. Having said that it was job done and fair play to Yoshi. I always worry when I see his name on the team sheet but he took his goal very well. Liverpool! Yay, bring it on.

I love this. Problem with a kid? Call the police. Reasonable response.....really???

They will have their own reasons. And if those reasons are because they are afraid of the reaction they will get, then isn't that an issue that needs to be addressed. I believe that The Mirror says that two players will "come out" next season. I can only assume that they are leaving it a while so that we can all brace ourselves for the revelations. If they weren't so worried about the reaction, why not come out now?

I think Norway was referring to the fact that the term is often used in a pejorative sense. If you say that someone is gay because they are that is just stating a fact. If you call someone gay because of something they wear or do or act then isn't that using the term as a negative?

I agree NS. We are still hung up in this country about what other people do as consenting adults behind closed doors. It wasnt that long ago that the Sunday papers were full of naughty vicar stories and the tabloids are still peddling rubbish about celebrity sh*gs now. Add same sex canoodlings and you hit the jackpot. As someone posted earlier, people know it is not PC to say things that are perceived to be "anti-gay" so you don't hear it so much - but I have heard "gay" used in the contexts you describe and still get the feeling that we deal with a different race better than we deal with a different sexuality.

No we cant assume anything, but as I say, there has to be a reason for it because a) by the law of averages a number of professional footballers are gay and b) they are keeping quite about it. You don't have to be homophobic to make a gay person's life difficult. You just have to be a tw*t and as you say, we all know that the terraces are full of tw*ts!

Nail on head Norway. I am sure it is because our expectations of him have been so high because of the cash involved. The injuries have not helped. He is still only 25 and has plenty of time ahead of him, either here or with another club. If he is going to leave, I hope it is on a high note.

No I don't but we are talking about football here, specifically professional football. I don't hear people taking the **** out of the Munich Air Crash or the gassing of Jews in the pub or on the streets but it still goes on on the terraces and that is our issue here - footballers not coming out and why? You can rightly say that it could be because it is no one else's business. You could also surmise that they don't fancy the back lash either. Gay people have come out in all kind of sports and other fields of life but very few, in fact hardly any, in football. There has to be a good reason for that.

Agreed. He is a real threat from set pieces and with him Pelle and Fonte we are going to cause defences major problems this season from corners and free kicks.

I think we use the word out of context. Surely homophobia means a fear of gay sexuality? We are talking about people using someone's sexuality to belittle or bully them.

Just thinking the same thing myself Turks!

Prince Albert

I am not sure that you can say that with a measure of certainty Hypo. Look at what happened to Justin Fashanu. I know it was a while back but the fact that it is hard to think of anyone else who has "come out" in football since then is significant. It happens in other sports but not in football. There has to be a reason more than they just think it is no one else's business. When you know you are going to have your face splashed all over the tabloids that is a good enough reason not to go public in many people's opinions. Not to mention the stick from the terraces and the "banter" from opposition players. Fans think it is funny to make hissing noises at Spuds fans (because as we all know the Holocaust was really funny) and make jibes at United over the Munich Air Disaster. What about Victoria Beckham taking it up the b*m? Taking the **** out of someone because they happen to be gay, just because we are supposed to be "tolerant" now, is hardly going to put them off making the players life hell week in week out. You'd have to be very tough skinned to put yourself through that.

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