Intelligence required not Dogma.

[1965onwards]

It is not intelligent to come to a club and play fanatasy football with the existence of this great club.We are playing for REAL points not FANTASY ones,and there are no points for

ARTISTIC IMPRESSION.

 

This is REAL football in the 6th most important league in EUROPE.We already have one EGOTIST in Lowe,we do not need another.To be a successful football manager without squillions to spend you need to be a PRAGMATIST.

 

There is an old saying "you have to EARN the right to play".We are not there yet,or any way near.

 

The last thing you do when you have a defence that is plainly not good enough is play the offside trap.We got away with it against Doncaster,it slaughtered us yesterday.

 

You cannot continually play in a way that gives your opponents so many chances and expect to get away with it in this league.There are a lot of players in this league who are good enough to take them.We must play wide players who CAN and WILL help out our full backs.This is a TEAM game.

 

It is perfectly obvious already that our opponents take far more of their chances than we do.While our youngsters are skilfull,that is only part of being a pro.footballer.They are lacking in many other areas,along with experience.

 

JPs job is to help these young players grow into the potential they have,it does them no good to be easy to beat.

 

There was no TOTAL football yesterday.Far too many 40+ yard passes that gave possession back to Coventry.The players movement off the ball is still nowhere near good enough for total football.

 

The one bright spot yesterday was the way the youngsters kept going until the final whistle despite being hammered.That shows the potential they have.

 

It is not the players letting us down,it is the management who are letting them and us down.

 

It is NOT good management to ignore the inexperience and weaknesses in your team and players,and to plough on dogmatically regardless.

 

If Lowe things this is a sensible plan of action,he is as deluded as JP.

 

We have the players to remain in this league.We need more INTELLIGENT management.

[AwaySaint1]

I thought it was the fans fault ?

 

Are you saying that Saints fans did not get entertained yesterday?

Winning is not everything you know!

[1965onwards]

Your as deluded as Lowe and JP if you think Saints fans regard playing a few passes to each other while the opposition looks on unconcerned,counts as being entertained.

 

Not to mention not being able to hit a barn door.

[miserableoldgit]

Your as deluded as Lowe and JP if you think Saints fans regard playing a few passes to each other while the opposition looks on unconcerned,counts as being entertained.

 

Not to mention not being able to hit a barn door.

Despite all of the "pretty" intentions, the truth is that (despite 2 or 3 clean sheets) we cannot defend and we cannot score enough goals to make up for this (a la KK`s 90`s Newcastle team). Perhaps Billy Davies Derby philosophy does not look quite so unattractive now?

[1965onwards]

Have never subscribed to the false view that football fans prefer an attractive team to a winning one.

[miserableoldgit]

Have never subscribed to the false view that football fans prefer an attractive team to a winning one.

I agree. We all want an attractive side that sweeps all before it but given the choice between an attractive side and a winning one I will go with the latter.

[St Marco]

Despite all of the "pretty" intentions, the truth is that (despite 2 or 3 clean sheets) we cannot defend and we cannot score enough goals to make up for this (a la KK`s 90`s Newcastle team). Perhaps Billy Davies Derby philosophy does not look quite so unattractive now?

 

Indeed. People are so used to us playing crap that they think because we can pass around the half way line = amazing. I expect every player at this level to be able to do that at a minimum. Our problem is our strikers are poor and our defence is poor. Meaning 2/3 of our team is not working right. The midfield have done ok and Kelvin has done superb. I understand why JP keeps bringing in strikers but i wonder if the wages we are paying to Gasmi/Pullis/Peckhart/Smith etc.. add up to what we were paying Rasiak? If you gave Rasiak the chances DMG has had in the past few games he would of taken a lot of them. That is what we need someone who has the ability to score goals when the team is playing crap. Both John and Rasiak have shown that they can do that. The only difference now is were playing crap and not scoring.

[70's Mike]

I agree. We all want an attractive side that sweeps all before it but given the choice between an attractive side and a winning one I will go with the latter.

 

wait for it

 

although to be fair to Jan in todays papers he says" I was a bit angry ans ashamed at half time because we were like a pussy cat "

" this game is about winning and not just to amuse yourself"

 

Right words but as i was told by friends in Den Bosch, when he was appointed, he struggles to get messages over

[1965onwards]

JP has brought in 6 creative? players and only 2 defenders.

 

And our biggest problem is defending.

 

Think the fans will quickly come to the conclusion that JP is as cluless as he looks on the touchline.

[miserableoldgit]

JP has brought in 6 creative? players and only 2 defenders.

 

And our biggest problem is defending.

 

Think the fans will quickly come to the conclusion that JP is as cluless as he looks on the touchline.

TBF I don`t blame JP. He, like the rest of us, is a victim of circumstances. We have been relegated. We have no money. We are probably close to admin. He has been offered a chance that he couldn`t have dreamed of by Rupes. What would you do in his position? I`m not sure what the answer is to our current problems, but the right take-over would help. Until then, we are where we are. Between a rock and a hard place.

[dubai_phil]

OK, time to comment from Phil.

 

I agree with the concept of having a top to bottom process at the club to bring through the youngsters. I agree where POSSIBLE that should mean a consistent set of tactics and formation.

 

I believe that the appointment of the Dutch duo was a gamble too far, one that SHOULD have been mitigated by having a wise old head to help even part time as a Director of Football to whom the guys could turn for mentoring and guidance and as a brainstorming support. I think that JP will become a damned fine coach, and I hope it will be with us.

 

What I DISAGREE with and have said a number of times is the blind allegiance to the formation. It is not about me being a Mike Bassett and demanding 4-4 bl**dy 2, it is about what I have seen succeed at this club over many years adapt your SYSTEM to fit the PLAYERS that you have.

 

Jan's formation requires two WINGERS. At this moment in time we do not have those in the squad. Holmes is injured, Smith is yet to train and we really do not have a right winger yet.

 

With Lawrie we played a sweeper system, with Ball & Le Tiss at his best we played a diamond system, with Hoddle we played a version of 4-3-3, not because of a DOCTRINE, but because the system chosen MATCHED the abilities of the players who were available for selection on any given day.

 

At the moment our full backs have simply acres of space ahead of them - especially James - why? because DMG is NOT a right winger, does not track back and leaves the kid exposed. Neither the 2 DM's are able to get out wide in time to cover when the ball is played long into the space. So without wingers, the 4-2-1-2-1 formation allows us to be torn apart by a longer or diagonal ball.

 

It is also clear that Lallana is wasted out wide - again he drifts in rather than back leaving gaps in the system.

 

While we have the lack of competent wingers, the system doesn't fit the players we have.

 

A diamond in midfiled would work. A sweeper with wing backs would work, but most importantly 4-4-2 with wide MIDFIELD players would work.

 

Fit the PLAYERS we have into a system and we will go from strength to strength, allowing TIME to develop White or even BWP into that position, or allow Gasmi to play right and Smith left WHEN fit.

 

What ISN'T working is fitting square pegs into round holes, it is a fault and is a problem of policy versus reality.

 

The longer it stays like this the more up and down we will be. As SOON as players are fit or available then of COURSE we can revert and I would expect we'd actually be quite good at it. Right now though we are sh*te at it

[1965onwards]

The solution to our current problems is to set the team up intelligently to take into account our strengths and weaknesses against the strength and weaknesses of the opposing teams.

 

At the moment we are just playing like a bunch of 8 year olds.I like watching 8 year olds play,but i would not expect a professional team to play that way.

 

I have seen nothing to suggest JP knows how to set up a professional team in such a competitive league.

[AwaySaint1]

wait for it

 

although to be fair to Jan in todays papers he says

"this game is about winning and not just to amuse yourself"

 

LOL is he trying to say they are all W*nkers?

[70's Mike]

LOL is he trying to say they are all W*nkers?

 

hope he did after the game

[derry]

OK, time to comment from Phil.

 

I agree with the concept of having a top to bottom process at the club to bring through the youngsters. I agree where POSSIBLE that should mean a consistent set of tactics and formation.

 

I believe that the appointment of the Dutch duo was a gamble too far, one that SHOULD have been mitigated by having a wise old head to help even part time as a Director of Football to whom the guys could turn for mentoring and guidance and as a brainstorming support. I think that JP will become a damned fine coach, and I hope it will be with us.

 

What I DISAGREE with and have said a number of times is the blind allegiance to the formation. It is not about me being a Mike Bassett and demanding 4-4 bl**dy 2, it is about what I have seen succeed at this club over many years adapt your SYSTEM to fit the PLAYERS that you have.

 

Jan's formation requires two WINGERS. At this moment in time we do not have those in the squad. Holmes is injured, Smith is yet to train and we really do not have a right winger yet.

 

With Lawrie we played a sweeper system, with Ball & Le Tiss at his best we played a diamond system, with Hoddle we played a version of 4-3-3, not because of a DOCTRINE, but because the system chosen MATCHED the abilities of the players who were available for selection on any given day.

 

At the moment our full backs have simply acres of space ahead of them - especially James - why? because DMG is NOT a right winger, does not track back and leaves the kid exposed. Neither the 2 DM's are able to get out wide in time to cover when the ball is played long into the space. So without wingers, the 4-2-1-2-1 formation allows us to be torn apart by a longer or diagonal ball.

 

It is also clear that Lallana is wasted out wide - again he drifts in rather than back leaving gaps in the system.

 

While we have the lack of competent wingers, the system doesn't fit the players we have.

 

A diamond in midfiled would work. A sweeper with wing backs would work, but most importantly 4-4-2 with wide MIDFIELD players would work.

 

Fit the PLAYERS we have into a system and we will go from strength to strength, allowing TIME to develop White or even BWP into that position, or allow Gasmi to play right and Smith left WHEN fit.

 

What ISN'T working is fitting square pegs into round holes, it is a fault and is a problem of policy versus reality.

 

The longer it stays like this the more up and down we will be. As SOON as players are fit or available then of COURSE we can revert and I would expect we'd actually be quite good at it. Right now though we are sh*te at it

 

I agree with a lot of this, however if a player is picked to play in a position he either gives it a go and tries to make a success of it or doesn't play at all.

 

McGoldrick can play wide adequately. He seems to be better there than sterile in the middle, dominated by the centre backs. The problem is that once picked in one of the fundamental positions for the team, he stays inside, doesn't play wide, causing us massive problems.