a review - nothing new

[Oz]

from a friend

 

I thought that I would leave my reply until after the Palace game which was a rare home win. But the other strugglers did well too.

 

Yes, I have been supporting them since the war, don't say which war. Through thick and thin, when I was in Wales and the Saints were in 3rd div I went to see them play Newport County more than once.

 

We could be playing them again soon, what a tragedy!

 

We have been SOLD down the river the reverse take over was done with too little capital investment and no attempt was made to reduce the very large mortgage debt on the stadium therefore the interest payments continued at a rate we could not be sustained following relegation.

 

We traded above our Bank overdraft credibility and we had to sell the family jewels superb players at below their value as other clubs knew we were on the slide.

 

We have had numerous managers and the only two worth giving good backing were Gordon Strachan and Nigel Pearson who have had fantastic success since moving on.

 

I feel very sorry for Mark Watte he took over too late. When I was in Holland visiting my daughter and Dutch son in law at the start of the season I was in the taxi to the station to come home. The driver asked where I lived I said "Southampton". I then told him of our Dutch management set up, he said " you have got it around the wrong way". What a pity Rupert the Ruthless did not realise that!

 

The original directors at St Marys have been greedy and made a lot of money and their successors have had good intentions but not delivered. They inherited a mess and could not get out of it.

 

As for Mac Menemy's crocodile tears he spent four seasons not using two free seats, then when he comes back he is "ambassador" at £75,000 a year!!! But don't forget he won the cup for us the players had nothing to do with it.

 

We have sunk so LOWE since the honorable days of Reader, Corbett and Bates they must be spinning in their graves.

 

As long as we are there I will be, even if Soton City Council save us by buying the stadium and we are Southampton City in the third tier.

I too thought of appealing to season ticket holders for advances to avoid disappearing altogether.

 

I think that we will be down in the lower division next season as we have run out of matches unless the other strugglers capitulate.

[londonsaint1604]

Pearson made some good loan signings and did well but stern john is the reason we didn't get relegated last season.

[miserableoldgit]

from a friend

 

I thought that I would leave my reply until after the Palace game which was a rare home win. But the other strugglers did well too.

 

Yes, I have been supporting them since the war, don't say which war. Through thick and thin, when I was in Wales and the Saints were in 3rd div I went to see them play Newport County more than once.

 

We could be playing them again soon, what a tragedy!

 

We have been SOLD down the river the reverse take over was done with too little capital investment and no attempt was made to reduce the very large mortgage debt on the stadium therefore the interest payments continued at a rate we could not be sustained following relegation.

 

We traded above our Bank overdraft credibility and we had to sell the family jewels superb players at below their value as other clubs knew we were on the slide.

 

We have had numerous managers and the only two worth giving good backing were Gordon Strachan and Nigel Pearson who have had fantastic success since moving on.

 

I feel very sorry for Mark Watte he took over too late. When I was in Holland visiting my daughter and Dutch son in law at the start of the season I was in the taxi to the station to come home. The driver asked where I lived I said "Southampton". I then told him of our Dutch management set up, he said " you have got it around the wrong way". What a pity Rupert the Ruthless did not realise that!

 

The original directors at St Marys have been greedy and made a lot of money and their successors have had good intentions but not delivered. They inherited a mess and could not get out of it.

 

As for Mac Menemy's crocodile tears he spent four seasons not using two free seats, then when he comes back he is "ambassador" at £75,000 a year!!! But don't forget he won the cup for us the players had nothing to do with it.

 

We have sunk so LOWE since the honorable days of Reader, Corbett and Bates they must be spinning in their graves.

 

As long as we are there I will be, even if Soton City Council save us by buying the stadium and we are Southampton City in the third tier.

I too thought of appealing to season ticket holders for advances to avoid disappearing altogether.

 

I think that we will be down in the lower division next season as we have run out of matches unless the other strugglers capitulate.

McMenemy was manager for 12 years, during which time the club was taken to heights we could only dream of, before or since. 3 Wembley appearances (inc. the 76 win), Runners-up to Liverpool in First Division and a series of "household name" stars playing for the team (inc the then current European Footballer of the Year). Oh, I forgot - none of that was anything to do with McMenemy. It was all down to the players! In fact come to think of it, why do we need a manager? Let the players (not sure who would choose and sign them though) sort things out themselves.

[VectisSaint]

We have been SOLD down the river the reverse take over was done with too little capital investment and no attempt was made to reduce the very large mortgage debt on the stadium therefore the interest payments continued at a rate we could not be sustained following relegation.

Don't get me wrong I have no time for Lowe (or Wilde), but the comment about the mortgage debt is just plain wrong. In the 2 or 3 years after we moved to SMS the mortgage debt was reduced quite considerably according to the accounts at the time, Lowe did make sure that it was being paid off at least as fast if not faster than was required. Some may argue that he did this rather than invest in the team, and that argument has some validity I guess. Blame Lowe for the (many) things that we should, but don't blame him for (the few) things that he did actually do well.

 

Meant to add the the comments about Lawrie are below the belt, and come from someone who clearly has no understanding of what he did for us and the Club. To say that winning the FA Cup was down to the players is missing the point completely. That team was assembled and fashioned by Lawrie. Of course it is a joint thing, but I don't think that team would have won the Cup if lawrie hadn't been there. Then of course promotion followed the next season with a team completely rebuilt by Lawrie, hardly any players remained from 76, then league Cup Final 2 years later.

Edited 17 April, 2009 by VectisSaint
Added the bit about Lawrie

[WestSaint]

Don't get me wrong I have no time for Lowe (or Wilde), but the comment about the mortgage debt is just plain wrong. In the 2 or 3 years after we moved to SMS the mortgage debt was reduced quite considerably according to the accounts at the time, Lowe did make sure that it was being paid off at least as fast if not faster than was required. Some may argue that he did this rather than invest in the team, and that argument has some validity I guess. Blame Lowe for the (many) things that we should, but don't blame him for (the few) things that he did actually do well.

 

Meant to add the the comments about Lawrie are below the belt, and come from someone who clearly has no understanding of what he did for us and the Club. To say that winning the FA Cup was down to the players is missing the point completely. That team was assembled and fashioned by Lawrie. Of course it is a joint thing, but I don't think that team would have won the Cup if lawrie hadn't been there. Then of course promotion followed the next season with a team completely rebuilt by Lawrie, hardly any players remained from 76, then league Cup Final 2 years later.

 

 

And many of those great players would not have been here but for Lawrie. Those were wonderful years and I do not like the re-writing of history by some posters disparaging The Manageral contribution at that time.

[John B]

Pearson made some good loan signings and did well but stern john is the reason we didn't get relegated last season.

 

or Richard Wright perhaps

[John B]

And many of those great players would not have been here but for Lawrie. Those were wonderful years and I do not like the re-writing of history by some posters disparaging The Manageral contribution at that time.

 

Yes and Ted Bates dont forget him it was Ted that got us on our way to Div 1 over forty years ago

[Junior Mullet]

Sorry Oz, I feel your emotion but a lot of what you say is, I believe, factually incorrect. I'm not going into detail to say what exactly as one couold argue against most of it.

 

I would agree however with the bit about having sunk so lowe (but I'm sure we are going to see our club rise once again sooner and be stronger once we are taken over). I would also agree that we were sold down the river as a result of the reverse takeover.

[miserableoldgit]

Yes and Ted Bates dont forget him it was Ted that got us on our way to Div 1 over forty years ago

You are quite right. Ted was a legend, but you know that if he was still alive, there would be people on here that would be re-writing history and crucifying him for "leeching" on the club as they are with McMenemy.

[saintsdan]

Don't get me wrong I have no time for Lowe (or Wilde), but the comment about the mortgage debt is just plain wrong. In the 2 or 3 years after we moved to SMS the mortgage debt was reduced quite considerably according to the accounts at the time, Lowe did make sure that it was being paid off at least as fast if not faster than was required. Some may argue that he did this rather than invest in the team, and that argument has some validity I guess. Blame Lowe for the (many) things that we should, but don't blame him for (the few) things that he did actually do well.

 

Meant to add the the comments about Lawrie are below the belt, and come from someone who clearly has no understanding of what he did for us and the Club. To say that winning the FA Cup was down to the players is missing the point completely. That team was assembled and fashioned by Lawrie. Of course it is a joint thing, but I don't think that team would have won the Cup if lawrie hadn't been there. Then of course promotion followed the next season with a team completely rebuilt by Lawrie, hardly any players remained from 76, then league Cup Final 2 years later.

 

So why is the debt on the stadium at the same level now as it was when it was built? This is one of my main issues relating to our current debt. I am struggling to understand how we have effectively paid off none of the debt in the 10 years since SMS was built, especially if as you suggest the mortgage was reduced considerably in the first 2 or 3 years after moving.

 

With regard to your comments about Lawrie, I agree with you totally and would like to add, in reference to the original post, that I don't believe the level of expenses he claimed in his ambassadorial role have ever been officially stated. It has also been suggested on here recently that they were substantially lower than was rumoured at the time.

[WestSaint]

Yes and Ted Bates dont forget him it was Ted that got us on our way to Div 1 over forty years ago

 

I don't forget Ted at all, My Grandfather first took me to the Dell when he was the manager. My strongest memories are however the period when Lawrie was in charge and lets not forget he had a pretty rough ride from the supporters until 1976 and from then he did little wrong IMO. It was not all plain sailing for him. The verbal abuse he initially received when he used to walk the touchline at the beginning of each match was huge.

[SaintRobbie]

Patience - a new owner cometh.

[Alain Perrin]

So why is the debt on the stadium at the same level now as it was when it was built? This is one of my main issues relating to our current debt. I am struggling to understand how we have effectively paid off none of the debt in the 10 years since SMS was built, especially if as you suggest the mortgage was reduced considerably in the first 2 or 3 years after moving.

 

I don't know what the figures are, but the interest due over the lifetime of the loan would explain why the headline figure is pretty much the same.

 

Lowe did, I believe, restructure the debt at some point in order to get a better interest rate.

 

Criticise Lowe for plenty of football related decisions, but generally financially he has his head screwed on (not doubting that the football decisions have financial consequences).

 

Ironically the reverse takeover and resulting PLC structure may be what saves us from relegation. Interesting to see what people think then...

[Andyb1]

McMenemy was manager for 12 years, during which time the club was taken to heights we could only dream of, before or since. 3 Wembley appearances (inc. the 76 win), Runners-up to Liverpool in First Division and a series of "household name" stars playing for the team (inc the then current European Footballer of the Year). Oh, I forgot - none of that was anything to do with McMenemy. It was all down to the players! In fact come to think of it, why do we need a manager? Let the players (not sure who would choose and sign them though) sort things out themselves.

 

You can't really compare his achievements with football today. It is totally a totally different game.