Dusic

Not until Ings has gone. I reckon Ings will go, Armstrong will be his replacement and then we will just keep Obafemi alongside Tella, Walcott & Redmond as the backup to Adams and Armstrong.

Really? Always strikes me as a physical player with poor technical ability. Certainly not someone I could see combining well with Adams or Tella.

Anyone else find that without our other Intls back you see all the photos and it really hits home how thin and lacking in real PL quality the squad is? Of those currently training only really KWP, Romeu, JWP, Ings, Walcott and Redmond have any really proven PL pedigree, certainly of the outfield players. Of those one is leaving, one is way past his best and one is very inconsistent.

Once they decided to loan him out, the new contract (likely still on low wages), was an obvious move. If he does well, then we have some bargaining power to get a decent fee for him - be that £500k or £5m. If he does very well then he becomes a first team option again in future. If he is ultimately L1 level then I'm sure we can loan him out and cover most costs for the remaining two years. Far worse than loaning him out, him doing well and then being able to leave for free as he is out of contract. This summer Sims and Hesketh both of whom played first team football left for free. If eventually we sell N'Lundulu for £500k that probably pays for 5 academy signings or various coaches for a year. We need to get better at selling the players who are good but not quite good enough. Re the Crocker comments, you have to consider each individual situation. N'Lundulu has made the first team without going on loan and by playing in the U23s and training with the first team. He isn't at this point quite ready for first team level and isnt going to benefit from playing PL2 as he is that bit older. A loan is then an obvious step. How he does then shapes whether he comes back or is sold/loaned again. Seems sensible if they aren't comfortable with letting him go permanently just yet.

I understand this, but if we are going to be different to pretty much every other PL team in history and go with just 3 full backs rather than 4 then surely, knowing this has been a need for approx 2 years, we could use our scouting to find a player for a reasonable fee (less than £10m) who can do that job for us? For example, Coufal cost West Ham about £5m, Brighton bought Lamptey for about £2m and Veltman for 800k. Its not like we are searching for a plauer who is 5th choice, whoever we sign will likely get a decent amount of minutes and quite conceivably could end up starting the majority of games were either of ours to pick up a mid severity injury. If we end up paying a lot for Williams and have him for just one season that seems a bit shortsighted to me unless they are confident they could sign him permanently for a reasonable fee following the loan.

Given Ralph's comments at the end of the season I did think we would have done a bit more by now. Essentially we have swapped one LB for another. Re Williams - we have been speaking to Utd about him for at least a year so would hope we knew what it would take to get him and whether it would be worth it or not. As ever, its all driven by outgoings. By letting Bertrand leave for free and spending 12m on his replacement we probably don't have much to spend until Vestergaard and Ings go, and both of those situations will probably rumble on. Hope to be suprised, but I am not expecting much this summer, and imagine once we have lost the players who will leave our squad will likely be weaker in terms of quality than it was last year.

Interesting that judging from the pics of the training so far there are no U23s who are training with the first team. Usually at the start of pre season there are 2 or 3 but even last week before this covid outbreak there were none. Pretty telling about the level in that squad overall and what Ralph thinks of them. Very suprised we haven't yet made any signings to strengthen that U23 group. Also...how is Harry Lewis still there?!

He isn't going to be turning down a move to Spurs. Nobody in our squad would. He will obviously go this summer, no chance we would or should let his contract run down and lose him for free. Hopefully it gets done soon and Saints can move on to securing a replacement, rather than it dragging on for ages.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19438258.southampton-swap-deal-unlikely-end-blackburn-rovers-stalemate/ Doesn't sound like there is anything likely on Armstrong anytime soon. I think this will be tied to Ings departure.

https://le10sport.com/football/mercato/exclu-mercato-logc-nice-propose-4-meur-pour-lemina-558109 Any cash would be a bonus.

If you kick up a fuss about wanting to play ahead of the likes of JWP, Romeu & Diallo to the extent of handing in a transfer request, then finally get a chance and do what he did...its not overly suprising that the Manager, who then gets a second 9-0 on his record, isn't the biggest fan of the player. Hopefully we have a good sell on % but on face value it seems to suit all parties.

I am fairly sure he will leave as things he struggled with (the pace and tempo of the PL, acceleration to get away from his man) he will still struggle with. Ralph saw him for a while and then loaned him out twice to a shit league where he was very inconsistent. We already have Armstrong, Redmond, Walcott, Djenepo and Tella who can play his position and have been linked with signing someone there also. Long has his number back but will still leave so I wouldn't read much into that.

Bit of a niche topic, but Will Lancefield, who is part of our recruitment team seems to be leaving to join Hearts. I found the second link which is a year old but an interesting insight into scouting and recruitment at Saints, for anyone interested. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/william-lancefield-become-hearts-transfer-24502091 https://podbay.fm/p/football-fourcast/e/1592087906

Looks to me like quite a few usual first teamers not involved for Blackburn in those games. Probably nothing to read into, its so early in pre season and they were playing non league opposition.

Will only get a CB once Vestergaard is gone as thats usually how we do things. This @Wheddsta guy is claiming quite a lot on his Twitter - looks like Palace have bid for about 50 players according to him...

Seems plausible. He has 1 year left on his contract so imagine will be a loan til thats up.

Mad to think how much his level has increased between how he was when he first joined us to how he is playing now. Makes it more of a shame that we will probably just about get our money back for him and little more.

Suprised to see JWP back so soon given his England outings. He has barely had a break considering how much he played last season - presumably thats his choice. First team wise only Diallo and Djenepo missing aside from GKs and Intls. Lots of players pictured who should/could leave: Lemina, Elyounoussi, Long, Obafemi, Valery...still a lot to be done.

Well just before the end of the season they brought in Lee Skyrme from the FA as an Individual coach to work alongside Horseman so hopefully he has a positive impact. I am quite suprised how many pro deals they have handed out but even more suprised that so far there have been no signings between 16 and 20 when there is such a dearth of quality in those ages and recruitment at that level was specifically mentioned by Crocker.

I don't understand the thinking of a loan as full back cover. - If he hardly plays then he will get frustrated and probably not want to sign for us even if we want to get him permanently. - If he does really well then it will be hard to sign him permanently and Utd will ask for more than we can afford. - If there is no real view of us signing him permanently then why not get someone in who we can develop? Would be very annoying if next summer we still need to sign full back cover, for about the 6th window in a row. I also don't think we will sign a 4th full back and think they will consider Stephens, Diallo, Salisu could do a job if needed. The primary attraction of Williams seems to be that he can play both sides which makes the above more likely.

All points towards a fiasco IMO as Ings holds all the power and the club are left in a very reactive position. For me it will either be: 1. He leaves near the end of the window for a top club once they have hit dead ends with their top targets and Saints realise we cannot afford to let him run his contract down and leave for free. Saints position it that we already signed his replacement in Armstrong, who at the time of his signing was briefed to Blackmore et al as definitely not being an Ings replacement. 2. He leaves in January for an even more cut price to a 2nd tier PL side like Villa or Everton once he realises that none of the top boys are goijg to move for him. Last chance at a run for the WC squad with a club not battlingnat the wrong end. Saints realise we cannot afford to let him run his contract down and leave for free. Saints position it that we already signed his replacement in Armstrong, who at the time of his signing was briefed to Blackmore et al as definitely not being an Ings replacement.

Of course its a drop in quality, Ings is one of the best strikers in the PL! Danjuma has had a good season in the Championship but is still very much jury out at PL level. I certainly wouldnt say he is a huge upgrade on Redmond or Walcott. Reality is that without Ings goals we will be worse off. Regardless of any spin. This has been positioned as summer where we need to do a lot of business. So far we have swapped one LB for another, and most other stories have been about losing players. There is a lot to do, and almost certainly only a fraction of what is needed will be done.

Personally I am not sold on Williams: 1. Hard to judge how good he actually is 2. £65k a week for a backup full back seems mental 3. No option to buy if he does well, are we just kicking the full back cover can down the road? 4. As with Minamino, United will want him to play and you wonder what is agreed regarding that to enable these deals to happen, a bit like with Minamino who suddenly got in the team after some Liverpool officials had been in touch with Saints following a period of few minutes. Would much prefer a permanent signing that we can develop.

He would be a big loss for two main reasons: 1. His diagonal to KWP was one of our only attacking threats in the second half of the season and Bednarek nor Salisu are technically anywhere near his level to begin to replicate that. 2. He would be massively missed from set plays in both boxes, whichbwe had a good record in last season. We have very few aerial threats which is a shame given JWP delivery and JV is by miles the most threatening. Without JV and Ings near post runs we wouldn't look like scoring a header from a corner. Agree Salisu looks like he could slot in well, but he certainly won't be able to replicate #1 and havent seen much evidence of #2 either - he is a different type of defender.

Taking the emotion away from it, the worst outcome for Saints is surely to allow him to leave on a free. Considering we need to sell to buy, and have already had to replace Bertrand without receiving a fee for him, I can't see the club missing out on £20-£25m for the sake of one additional season. The problem is that we have no real bargaining power, and will need to replace him so selling at the end of the window would be awful timing as we know from experience we won't sign a replacement until Ings has actually gone. Best case would be a club comes in now with a sensible offer and it just gets done quickly. Same with Vestergaard.