InvictaSaint

To protect Duncan’s “Forever Saint” award? Wow. Seems a little extreme. 😉

Interesting analysis from Sky. Statistically not quite as incredible as he thinks he is….. The clock looks to be ticking on Nathan Jones' time at Southampton after only managing one PL win from seven; Saints have kept one clean sheet in their last 27 league matches, conceding in each of their last 12 at St Mary's; they are five points adrift of safety with 17 games to go The chants have grown increasingly more condemnatory. They have graduated from prolonged choruses of boos, to "you don't know what you're doing", to "get out of our club." A decree issued directly at manager Nathan Jones. Fans have made their concerns known as unease and impatience amplifies with every defeat. The cloud over St Mary's is growing ever darker - and appears close to bursting point. Southampton have lost six of their last seven Premier League games, keeping one clean sheet in their last 27 - albeit not all of the matches in that dismal run overseen by Jones. The outlook on the south coast is, nonetheless, gloomy. 15 points from 21 played - an average of 0.7 per game. Supporters' ire is not likely to thaw any time soon, with many already turning their back on a manager who has only been in the role two-and-a-half miserable months. Part of the issue, from a fan perspective, is broken promises. Jones has backed himself into a corner. He came in wanting to address defensive stability - with specific focus on clean sheets and eradicating mistakes from set-pieces. Neither have materialised. Jones has managed 12 games in all competitions since his appointment - Saints have conceded from five set-pieces (four corners and one free-kick) during that time. In fact most metrics, from which Jones was initially identified and measured by at former club Luton, are not transpiring in Hampshire. When compared with Ralph Hasenhuttl's first 15 games of this season, for example, Saints have regressed in almost all categories. They score less, concede more and offer up more of the ball to their opponents - particularly at home, where they have won fewer points than any other side in England's top four divisions. In reality, it means the football is as uninspiring as the results. Jones, untried at untested at top-flight level before now, was an unpopular appointment back in November - deemed to be far less 'fashionable' than Aston Villa's recruitment of Unai Emery or Julen Lopetegui at Wolves. But early misgivings have agitated and alienated the fanbase even further. Tactical tinkering, including ever-changing shapes, formations, styles and personnel has compounded the problem. Across the season, 55 changes have been made to Southampton's starting XI - only Chelsea and Liverpool rank higher. Saints have also used a total of 31 different players - only Chelsea have fielded more (32). Premier League — Bottom half Pos. P Pts Form 11 Aston Villa 21 28 LWDWWL 12 Crystal Palace 21 24 WLLDDL 13 Nottm Forest 21 24 LDWWDW 14 Leicester 21 21 LLLLDW 15 Wolves 21 20 WLDWLW 16 Leeds 21 19 DDLDLD 17 West Ham 21 19 LLDLWD 18 Everton 21 18 LDLLLW 19 Bournemouth 21 17 LLLLDL 20 Southampton 21 15 LLLWLL Jones, to his credit, has remained defiant and bullish throughout. He believes he is the man for the job and can turn the tide on the south coast - but surely only three points against Wolves on Saturday can hand the under-fire boss a life raft. We are in win or walk territory. What began as the optimistic dawning of a new era under new owners (Sport Republic) willing to invest in rebuilding the playing squad (spending a further £56m in the January window), has quickly turned into a rescue mission with very few contingencies. It's no surprise disgruntled fans are voicing contempt - question is, is anyone listening? Jones: I was among best in Europe at Luton... But I've compromised Jones denies shifting blame for Saints form | 'I've gone back to basics' Blame game exposes frailties Along with chaotic performances and underwhelming results, another reason for Southampton supporters' unhappiness with Jones lies in various bizarre public pronouncements. Since his appointment, Jones has been quick to point to personal successes at Luton, speaking highly of his own credentials while detaching himself somewhat from Southampton's downfall - instead highlighting perceived errors made by previous regimes. His post-match address after last weekend's Brentford defeat was case in point. "I've been very successful playing a fluent style", he said, adding: "statistically, there weren't many better than me around Europe". Nathan Jones says he took full responsibility for Southampton's poor form, adding he 'pandered' to some things around the club, after the loss at Brentford Jones described his players as "that team" in west London, and pointed out "the same things have been happening for a year - they've been losing games in the Premier League". The finger of blame was indeed pointed at numerous culprits, which appeared to absolve himself of responsibility - although the 49-year-old has since backtracked, claiming the comments were intended as a full admission of responsibility and he "lives and dies by his own decisions". Still, the emotional rant did very little to win sympathisers among the fanbase, while also raising alarm bells amid Southampton's new-look hierarchy - who have since gone on record to publicly back their first managerial appointment since taking over at St Mary's 12 months ago. Jones said he has made "compromises" because of "personnel", "the way that people want to play" and "fans". Southampton's defeat at Brentford was their sixth in seven league games under Nathan Jones Criticising so many key factions of the club is risky, with reports emerging this week Jones' bosses were suitably unimpressed by the knee-jerk reaction. By contrast, captain James Ward-Prowse apologised to travelling fans for another abject display. Unsurprisingly, supporters took exception to Jones' comments. Speaking to Sky Sports News ahead of Tuesday's fans' forum, one supporter described the atmosphere as "toxic", while another said: "within weeks, 100 per cent of the fanbase turned against him [Jones]." "It's the Premier League that matters to Saints fans and a lot of them are not convinced at all by Nathan Jones. Plenty want him gone," Sky Sports News reporter Jeremy Langdon summarised earlier this week. Nathan Jones was asked to leave by his own fans during Southampton's loss at Brentford Rasmus Ankersen, CEO of the club's owners Sport Republic, has given public backing to Jones at a Q&A event with fans. He said: "It's no secret that if you keep losing games you cannot do that forever, at some point you hit the point where it's enough. "I appreciate you're looking at it from the outside and have certain reference points and we are on the inside we have a lot more reference points. We see what goes on every day, we see the quality of the work carried out, relationship with the players. "As long as we think the work being carried out by Nathan and team and players at the training ground every day is high quality then we have something to believe in that this is going to get better and we can turn it around." Jones adamant playing style has been 'compromised' - but what is it? Jones was head-hunted by Ankersen largely because of the laudable work he undertook at Luton, which perhaps explains why he was so keen to emphasise his time at Kenilworth Road after Saints' recent Brentford thumping. After that game, Jones bemoaned his inability to replicate the style of football that proved successful for him at Luton, saying of Southampton: "I look at that team and I don't see myself," adding: "I've compromised." So, let's compare. During his two full seasons in charge - 2020/21 and 2021/22 - Jones' Luton were hardly prolific, ranking 20th for goals scored, but they were good at getting the ball forward quickly, coming in seventh for long passes attempted and ninth for completed crosses, while only five sides completed fewer passes. The Hatters were also strong from attacking set-pieces, placing eighth for assists from such situations. Since he took charge, Jones' Southampton produce similar statistics, ranking 16th for goals scored, second for long passes attempted, sixth for crosses completed and fourth for assists from set-pieces - with only three sides completing fewer passes. Southampton have lost eight of their last nine PL games - the exception being a 2-1 win at Everton However, there are a number of areas where Jones has failed to implement his so-called playing principles - and they go some way to explaining Saints' downward trend. Jones' Luton were a skilled pressing side, rated in the top three in the Championship across the past two completed seasons for possessions won in the attacking third, while they ranked 14th for goals conceded. Southampton's pressing is nowhere near as coherent or effective - they are in the bottom half among top-flight sides for attacking-third possession wins - and are joint bottom for goals conceded. They have also conceded a league-high 13 goals from crosses. What's more, only 38 per cent of the long passes Southampton have attempted actually reached their intended target. In short, Luton under Jones got the ball forward quickly and accurately, pressed high and defended solidly. They did not need to score hatfuls of goals because they were breached far less frequently. Southampton are simply failing to match up. The Jones playbook, which relies on being defensively sound and robust, is undone every time Saints concede first - across 21 league games, they have only scored the first goal four times, and none of those have occurred during games managed by the Welshman. Bold claims distort truth Nathan Jones said he had 'compromised on principles' at Southampton, and claims Luton were one of the best-coached teams in Europe under his management One of the most eye-catching claims Jones made following the damaging defeat at Brentford was "there weren't many better than me around Europe in terms of aggression, clean sheets, defending the box, balls in the box, xG [expected goals]" during his second spell at Luton. Jones added his side "were pound-for-pound the best because we were spending next to nothing and producing so much". Putting Jones' words under the microscope, it's clear Luton did keep an impressive number of clean sheets, recording a shutout in 37.5 per cent of their matches - but such impressive numbers do not correspond at the top end of the pitch. Across the Championship between 2020-21 and 2021-22 - Jones’ two full seasons in charge after returning to the club - they ranked fourth for clean sheets. Fair enough. Luton also ranked fairly high for passes into the box under Jones, recording 30.47 per game. For context in European circles, behind Bayern Munich, Manchester City and Liverpool, Monaco yielded the highest number (33.01), while the lowest was fellow Ligue 1 side Lorient (21.34). Jones’ claim about Luton’s xG is where the real downfall lies. The Hatters’ figure of 1.26 per game ranks averagely among European sides - mid-table, if you will. It's certainly way behind leaders Bayern, who top the charts with 2.45. Jones' claims were exaggerative, but do, however, carry some weight considering relative budgets. Nathan Jones says he 'lives and dies by his decisions' following recent criticism about his management of Southampton According to Transfermarkt, the largest fee Luton spent on a player during Jones’ second spell was £1.8m (Carlton Morris), while they signed seven players for free. During that time - with one of the lowest budgets in the second tier - Jones took Luton to successive top-half finishes - including a play-off semi-final. But now the arena has changed. Jones has stepped up from the middleweight to heavyweight division and the pressure is showing. Cracks have appeared. When asked if he thinks he can keep Southampton in the Premier League during his pre-Wolves press conference he replied: "I genuinely think I can." The 'how' remains to be seen.

I think you know what he was trying to say....clearly nobody wants him to reveal the exact game plan. But what he came out with didn't even come close to looking like he knew what to do / say other than the bland trite clichés that he trots out every time about "front-footed" and "aggression". He clearly has not a single clue.

This is absolutely spot on - and the biggest concern for me. Adam Blackmore names the entire Wolves midfield, referencing them as a threat and asking for information on how NJ plans to set Saints up to counter them. But you are right - it was just vague waffle that he repeated elsewhere. I am not convinced he even knows who Wolves midfielders are let alone how they play. Post Brentford was an absolute car crash, but you might give him half a chance if he showed today he had done his prep and was setting up with a specific game plan to beat Wolves. But the bloke doesn't have a clue.

To be fair, there are a lot of them also recognising voluntarily that a) he is abrasive and rubs people up the wrong way, b) works better with an older head around him and c) has absolutely stitched himself up with his ridiculous press conference last Saturday.

2-2

1-2 now.

Interesting second line - are some players training alone do you know?

To be honest if he hasn't been told this then SR need their collective heads examining. Leaving aside the jaw-dropping decision not to sack him yesterday after Saturday's debacle, it would be utter incompetence to keep a manager in post who has stated to the entire nation that he now "needs to do things his way" in order to succeed.....and then allow him to fail again.

I don't think I have spent a day feeling more depressed about Saints than today - and that includes the relegations in 2005 and 2008. It absolutely beggars belief that this man is being allowed to continue as the steward of our great football club. Utter, utter insanity. There is not a shred of doubt in any Saints supporter's mind - or indeed in the mind of anybody who likes football - that he is incapable of turning this around. The man is a fraud and a failure of epic proportions, and he needs getting rid of for all our sakes.

This is the most clinical, clear and damning bit for me….

You don’t come back from that. SR have no option but to pull the plug.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Or just the club generally.

Willing to go on record saying that neither of the above will happen.

If anybody has a spare ticket (I know - glutton for punishment), please consider me first. 07515008001. Cheers.

Could he not have gone to church like everyone else?

One here please.

Ditto for Brentford please - DM me if you have one. Cheers.

Hi S-Clarke. Yes, I see where you're coming from....but at the same time, I suppose you could ask at what point does it become a similar sample? By definition the samples will never be exactly the same because they are different games played at different times under different managers, in different conditions with different players available. If you are doing it on a purely numerical basis, take the first 5 league games of the season for Ralph and compare with NJ's first 5. On this basis, Ralph still comes out better. That is not to say - to be absolutely clear! - that I believed Ralph didn't need to go; he most certainly did. However, even if you ignore the absence of the new manager 'bounce' that almost every other club seems to benefit from (!), NJ is hardly pulling up trees. Far, far from it. I get what you say about he's not going anywhere - at least not imminently - but if he continues as he's started, then it would be grossly negligent for SR not to look at his results and question whether or not they've made the right appointment. St. Louis (I think) referenced a few weeks ago that SR were actively discussing whether they had made a mistake in appointing NJ and while they will never openly admit as much, it must still be on their radar. If NJ gets us relegated on half a season's results, then that will be squarely on him....and by implication SR.

Bit like the first team.

Not saying we should. Just interested in people’s thoughts.

Me….or them?! 😳🤔

Afternoon All. Not trying to be defeatist or negative....but given our current position it would be naïve not to think about what happens to the club if Saints go down at the end of the season. I thought therefore that this section - which I have transcribed - of the recent BBC Solent interview between Adam Blackmore, Rasmus Ankersen and Martin Semmens is of particular relevance and importance. I've highlighted the bits I think are worthy of note....Thoughts welcome. MS: You’ve got to have a plan you’ve got to give Nathan the resources he needs. AB: How much is the reality of relegation a catalyst for everybody? What happens....how much do Sports Republic worry about relegation and the impact it has on the future of the club or do you think long-term the club will be okay anyway the club will recover if things don’t go well with the backing it’s got? MS: let me answer that and then Rasmus can answer from a Sports Republic point of view, but yes absolutely... so a football club in our position every year focuses 100% on staying in the league and winning games but there is a plan in the background if things you know do not go our way so there’s nothing different or complicated to that. The one thing I can say is that we are having a wonderful ownership group now who have an investment, that are committed to the long-term. It is not a short-term plan so we are in a very very good financial position for the league we are in and any league we’re in and any plan that we have in future so I can only really say that we’re in a stronger position than we’ve ever been. I know that sounds counterintuitive when we’re bottom of the league but from a club structural point of view and an ownership-investment point of view we are in the best position we’ve been in since I’ve been here. AB: Rasmus would you like to add anything to that? RA: Yeah I mean (laughs).... if you are in one of the bottom 12 clubs of the Premier League, you have a certain risk every year of relegation you know and it would be you know irresponsible not to take that into account, but this is the risk of being in the Premier League The risk in the investment. And we fully bought into that but what I can assure you is we are fully committed to the long term of Southampton Football Club. You know we really want to make this successful. We are working as hard....we are fighting as hard as we can and we hope we can get everybody behind us for the last 19 games of the Premier League and then I’m sure we’ll get there.