Frank's cousin

If there had been a coherent startegy for success between all major shareholders we may have seen them agree on either Director loans or a further issue - its possible that the lack of agreement on any startegy is also why this never happened coupled with teh fact Wilde must be (relatively) skint and doe lOwe have that kinda cash - I dont think so.

Hey? Would the 'bigman' be after me for removing his 'toy' or Mr Crouch for the insult? I'm worried now?

And I cant argue against the result of that decision as its clear for all to see. I guess the issue I have is what the reponse would have been had it worked, or had it failed with Pearson - part of the problem with this debate, is that its complicated by our guessimate work on fan base - would we sell 27000 STs still staring at relegation IF we had Pearson or someone else? There will undoudtedly be a feel good factor if we are rescued which should mean attendence pick up again for the first few games, but if results dont come quick, the same will happen - we need to allow any owner to set REALISTIC budgets based on bottom line gates WITHOUT then being subject to constant barrages of having no ambition as lowe was... thats the key, because then if we have the desired success that extra cash is a bonus that can be used to IMPROVE the squad in Jan or in the Summer - an upward trend rather than a static one.

Ahr.... but...splutter.... er... no seriously the real test comes next season TBH - there was bound to be a never say die spirit the day after administration and the £15 a ticket had something to do with it - we had also sold well over 23000 BEFORE the board went ;-) end of season stuff etc etc... its easy to get these dar stats to show what you want depending on what else goes with 'em ;-)

Is its now wrong to bate Alps? Seriously Alpine, if you are out there 'milking goats' in those wonderful mountains, I extend the peace pipe - lifes too short to be grumpy and miserable or so my wife keeps telling me - (let me start smoking again then I respond) All I ask is that you have a read...a proper one not a skim, of what UP has said, Duncan and myself and hopefully it would be clear how this is not some big issue to get all miserable and mean over - there is room for diverse opinion, but there is importantly room for all perspectives to be presented ....and challenged. As a wiseman probably said 'the road to find truth and enlightenment, is long rocky and littered with skates on wind ups, but when you reach your destination its like commming back from 0-4 down at half time to snatch a win in the dying seconds' ;-)

I think you need to add 'potentially' in there somewhere, the grim reality is that so far no one seems to a front runner who is confident of coming up with cash.... there is a limit to how long this can go on for and for me its starting to get seriously worrying... tire kickers we have aplenty - serious bidders with the resources to rebuild and take us forward seem thin on the ground.

Oh stop your whining ;-) Its actually been quite good natured really - I guess a sense of gallows humour is seeping in - you are both right - we are in the mess and it may still get worse and now how we got tere is irrelevent in the grand scheme of things -apart from a big report required for any new board if we are lucky with 'Lessons learned' in bold across the cover.

How was giving money to the club giving money to Lowe? - As a PLC it is ineffect giveing moent to all shareholders in proportion - and also as a PLC we had the strictest regulations regarding the financials operations and auditing...?

LOL ;-) feck just fell of my chair - done the cruciate - out for the season..

LOL... would I sign up - possibly and thats no disrespect or slur on Pearson - you know I have repeatedly said I rate him , like him and would have been more than happy to see him be given a chance - but like most fans, you try and see positives in most things and get behind the man in the hot seat and support the lads whatever is thrown at you. ...and yes I admit I could see logic in 'Kids + dutch model shocker' - same as there was very strong logic for 'got a good un, lets keep him on' ... yes the changes have failed us, cant argue with our position or predicament - most of us hoped they would work... for the sake of the club - not out of some blind loyalty for Lowes decision... but weve been there before.

You cant Blame fans for administration and not going, but the size of our fanbase must ahve been over estimated when assessing the budget because we obviously exceeded our income - and so we were in this position because we never got the numbers the club expected or because the club overspent based v the actual revenues - its the onld classic vicious circle - fans wnat success and to see ambition - which the club can only truely demonstrate by spending big on decent playesr and having a wage policy that attracts the best in teh division - this leads to success and a league position and results that attract fans to the games - which funds teh said wage/player purchase policy - simple really ;-)

Have you ever tried anger management? 'perpetually whine' - now I hate using cliches but that sure as hell is a clasisc case of pots/black and kettles. Alpine, you never seem able to explain your opinions with underpinned facts or rational for why you have them, they are aggressive, negative and old windbag whinging ****** - now if you could present a reasonable case to back up why you are an old whinging windbag women then I would be able to respect it - but the post above and your reposne to the humourous thread following the 'blame thing' gives the perception that you have a) no sense of humour, b) no sense of irony, c) no sense of self awareness (one of your favourite accusations) d) no sense of satire/black humour etc but just keep going - You come accross as someone who after they have kicked the door down keeps kicking the door for no logical reason, when the fact reamins you never even tried the handle to begin with.... ...BUt I'd still meet you for a pint of that quality Austrian Pilsner brewed by naked monks that you must be enjoying...;-) PS. its not arrogance or patronizing its called **** take! ;-) you agian em to made up stuff that is not in my post - you claim 'You seem to believe that only one conclusion can be drawn from close anaylsis of the facts in the public domain - yours. Anyone who draws a different or opposing conclusion clearly is acting under ignorance and should be ridiculed.' NO ... I will say this slowly... I am merely hoping that the opinions are based on these facts ...not that they are the same as mine - even if i dont agree - because surprise surprise we can all look atr the SAME facts, the SAME outcomes and depending on which perspectives you apply draw DIFFERENT conclusions and thus form different opinions, Thats is teh nature of debate and why this should be fun - I have merely spend a fair amount of time taking the same facts but providing a different perspective to counter the very one sided view on here - that should help the debate, not hinder it - it can aslo strengthen your argument , yes the anti Lowe view' because argumenst stnd up to far graeter scrutiny if absed on more solid foundations and and understanding that ALL perspectives have already been alaysed and thought through... rather than simple 'Lowe' a c***, Crouch is Brilliant'....

Thats assuming you know which queue I was in UP! ;-)

Uhm I know what you are saying, but for me its always been about what these guys ahve done and not personalities, so if they drop the crap and turnover new leaves and genuinely live up to the 'new m' stuff, I say fairs fair - life is too short to bare grudges especially over something like football. If it means its teh only offer that preventsliquidation surely it would not matter who it came from? (as a starting point) - we no longer have teh luxury of choice anyway - its someone appointed by teh administrtaors or bust and if we are serious about Saints and care abouts its long term survival we will support the team who ever is in the boardroom and in spite of them if they turn out to me more numpties....

Uhm, not surprizingingly I cant agree 100%, because we have no way of telling the outcome had pearson stayed with same restrictions on playing staff. JPs result show he was a mistake - after the fact you cant argue against that even if you felt it was a reasonable idea to start with, but I still dont think we would have had enough revenue generated by the gate if we had the same resuts under Pearson and its speculation to assume we would have done better - simply put folk lost interset because of the lack of success and CCC football - Had JP had success and we were in the playoffs under Lowe we would have had 22-25 k average same as we would had the same crap gate under Crouch and Pearson had the results been the same as we have now - as fans got worn doen by successive lack of success in teh CCC - thats the true comparitor. In MHO anyway and as speculation goes its equally valid as assuming Pearson would have had us even mid table with the same restrictions .... What to really thinnk our average gate would have been this season if: 1. Lowe / JP - automatic promotion position 2. Lowe /JP - Playoff postion 3. LOwe/JP Mid table 4. Lowe /JP relegation fodder - 15k 5. Lowe/ Pearson - automatic promotion 6. Lowe/Pearson - palyoff 7. LOwe /pearson mid table 8. LOwe/Pearson relegation fodder - 15 k 9. Crouch Paerson - automatic promotion 10.Crouch/pearson playoff 11 CRouch pearson mid table 12. Crouch Pearson - relegation fodder - 15 k

Alps, no reply? I know you are lurking?

I could live with Leon being involvd again but he would have to preferably remove himself from Lawries backside first and drop all the fan friendly rhetoric in favour of ofa bit of serious managemnet decisions.

To be honest though is this not really just that we all though we were bigger than we actually are? Most teams would do at least 30K in the prem if the locals have the cash - but the reality we simply dont have enough folk interested in pure sainst football rather than interested in football... we cant blame people for their preferences or passion not being teh same as ours - we can only really have a go at those who claim to be fans but are staying away because of teh politics, yet fail to return when its over, or used that as an excuse because they disliked CCC football and our results?

Matty's book was due a few years back but got shelved he said when his Sky committments went up - should be an interesting read. Maybe justify was the wrong word... more IN HIS VIEW (Note, not mine) to try and put his SIDE as lets be fair the media were going around asking every Tom, Mac and Noddy, ex players, managers etc for their opinion on it all, yet none of these would have given the boards perspective and is that not what we should be expecting from our media - allowing both sides to plead their case?

...It was a joke alpine - you know black/gallows humour? Or have you forgotten how to laugh?

I would agree with pretty much all you said in you post but feel the need to respond to this point - The reason for the many numpty jibes was probably to fair because most of those making the points on finance and controls were the same who had previoslu and quite recently been advocating a spend spend policy and had been critical of any prudence as it lacked 'ambition' - It woudl be also fair to assume that NO chairman can be blamed for the difficulties faced on relegaton when you suddenly see 30mil income loss - blame for relegation yes, but its the Prem/football league income set up that cause the financial mess to start with - not financial incompetence - and he was criticised by same said 'numpties' for having relegation clauses in players contracts agains because fans felt it sent teh wrong message - the reality is should be a motivator - performance related pay and all that ;-) This second time its tricky to judge as we dont know how bad things had got - I suspect our fate was sealed the moment we did not sell of loan out the higher wage earners in Jan as form what I have heard thats when the OD started increasing again...

LOL of course not, but he was merely using what was at his disposal to try and justify his position and part in it all - not saying I agree with it, but can understnad why he might feel that way - hense the noddy board example thats all... ; Noddy board' that is actuall quite funny ;-) and no I dont have big ears

...Come on it was said in jest

It was odd certainly, but if you genuinely felt you had been misunderstood, would you not want to try and address the balance - is it really that much different from when we end up in spats on here because we feel we have been misinterpreted? PS. I must have said something right as you only manged one line this time! ;-) (A genuine ;-) this time too!)

True, If Lowe had been prepared to move aside, even to just a CEO role, he and Wilde would have been forming a borad teh first time round and we would a) not have seen the orangeman and his cronies b) probably not have spent 7 mil when we should have saved it....but he is a stubborn bastard... I think he may have moved aside this time though if it menat saving some of the share value?