Frank's cousin

Oh get get off you high horses you old women!;-) This place would be dull dull dull if we all agreed on everything and the spats and are part of that - mostly erupting because its so easy to flame ont interwebnet thingy - Alps and me would probaly get plastered on quality Austrian Pislner brewed by naked monks and have the same debate, if down the Gaststaette so chill boys and stop being like over sensitive parents! ;-)

This is the huge worry - that time is against us. Some out there may well find some solace in watching AFC Saints in the Hampshire senior or whatever, but it wont be the club that has been around for 124 years - a year short of the 125th that we all know and love. Someone out there with the money must surely see we have the infrastructure in place and the fanbase - its as good a starting point as any club in the FL and better than some in the prem as we are better value, come on get your wallets out!

The thing is IF there is a legal loophole, irrespective of the moral arguments , we will use it. The FL would have already instigated teh penalty if it currently felt confident our situation was subject to EXISTING regulations which they have created. This forensic nonsense is because there must be some truth in the loophole? I suspect however that the FL are worried we might escape throught it because of the can of worms it might through up....

Basically what UP said - just add up the total teh player cost and then reduce it over the life span of the contract - then at any point in time you add up the total and have you asset value - bare in mind that if you dont buy any players the value just continues to go down. Academy players when sold are then pure profit on the books.

Darn, we would have got away with it had we still had the radio station and the insurance company! Darn those pesky kids.....;-)

Fair enough...it was a bit churlish to bring up that point - but generally I do think the timescale is now VERY short to find an appropriate buyer who has the clout to convince the Administrator, let alone one who has a strategy that fans will find positive. Ideally we need a stay of execution to make sure the administrator gets the best all round rather trhan just accepting what its deemed acceptable to Barclays and Aviva... I just think the odds are stacked against us and still feel we should have avoided this at all costs whatever that meant fro occupation of the boardroom.

Thats so clever...you almost had me there ;-) IF we get taken over by ANYONE, not justa multibillionaire, that has a strong and reralistic strategy for long term success and stability, I will firsty be overjoyed - afterall no one has ever said Lowe was the answer - just possibly arguing who was the best of that historic bunch - Now, mynext question would be quite genuinely, why did saisd rescue wait until admin? does this matter if its good etc? Thats the tricky bit because there is an argument that says someone after us on the cheap.... but again does it matter? not really as long as the strategy is right. IF and its a big IF, admin was the only way to a brighter future, as a result, of course everyone who advocated it will have been proven right, because its actually happened - probability of 1 you cant argue with...same as if we went bust and ceased to exist - and AFC saints in a hampshire league is NOT the same thing - that again would be a probabilty of 1 so all those who feared liquidation would be right - thing is I dont want to be right . BUt thats besides the point, my argument is about RISK that some hated lowe so much and so irrationally that they were prepared to advocate a preference for a high risk of liquidation (which could still follow) in preference to lowe staying involved - I just dont believe a siants fan would see that as a worthwhile risk period. I will say again if by some miracle we land a genuine group who care, great and Alpine can fill his boots, but I cant believe the odds are worth that POV.

40 this yera,... and teh word you wanted was mature surely? ;-)

Your stock answer? But utterly misguided. I have listened to and thought about all the cons of the previous regime. They are many, there have been huge errors of judgement. But there is also a great deal of misinformed, speculation that is treated asd fact/propoganda and an irrational sense that this was somehow all deliberate, - or at least thats the only thing that seems to rationalise the irrational hatred from several quarters. Some of these mistakes habve happened in good faith, some have happened because ego got in the way of common sense, and some hav enot been mistakes at all, but strategies that have simply not worked when tried despite having a logical rational for giving them a try - THAT is what is fair and balanced. With Wilde and Cruch the same applies, although I am struggling with Wilde to find a pros. Crouch cant be faulted on strong fan ideals, but from what I have seen, for me there was simply to much heart driving mind - and from business perspective he really should have seen the potential problems if teh 7.5 mil spend failed and as football club chairman, he had the power to veto this at the time... he chose the risky option and it was a mistake IMHO... BUt I dont hate him, how can I? He as well as Lowe believed what they were doing was right even if it did not work out, and life is full of sad folk who sit stuing in their own anger and what does that achieve? FECK ALL. That is wghat I mean about balance, its not about sitting on fences as much as you and your organ grinder UP would like to believe, or about not forming an opinion one way or another, but about forming it AFTER you have acknowledged the few facts we do have and ignoring the speculation, rumour and gossip.... and seeing that in the grand scheme of things, the bitterness and schardenfreude are really not worth it or deserved. And dont try and worm your way out of what you said - there were many who pointed out to you that there is a very good chance that liquidation could follow admin if no buyer is found, and you dismissed this as scaremongering - yet you were still prepared to see this as an acceptable risk to get rid of one bloke.... thats whats unbelievable.

NO one has ever argued that you cant make a choice and have an opinion one way or another, but you have to at least listen and try and understand -(and be prepared to debate) with bopth sides of the coin - you can think what you like about me UP, but I will keep asking that you refrain from inventing opinion on my behalf so that you can us it in your own responses..... No one is 100% objective or even handed all the time- and of course I include myself in that, but that does not mean you should not try and understand all perspectives, appreaciate and be prepared to listen to both sides.... thats whats often lacking here, the willingness to even listen.

I will feel overjoyed if we get a knew and better board - because its ONLY ever been about SFC and loyalty to it rather than loyalty to any one man. Lowe has without doubt made big mistakes that have directly contributed (along with others) to our situation. If however you believe as Alpine does that the potential of no club is prefereable to a club with Lowe, then sorry, but that is outrageous. the Club is way bigger and more important than one man, always has been.

Knoiw what you mean... my dada was stationed in Germany between 77-83 (between being 8 and 14 years old) and had BFBS as the only footie source - which was crap, had to listen to scores on the old radio...

Quick rule question ; is the points deduction automatic because of administration, or dependent on how much we pay back, eg if we found a buyer who paid teh creditors in full, and took us out of admin still result in points deduction.... I thought it was all to do with getting away with not paying debt?

Because I could not resist the comment - we are finally and way too slowly beginning to see teh harsh realities of administration. Only teh naive believe the Football league wont dock points - I suspect they are hoping we are relegated naturally and thus can say no to the deduction based on tehir own rules as they want to avoid docking us 10 opoints to relegate us and then have the whole thing dragged through the courts.... However if no buyer is found by the seasons end it could all be over anyway, if we are forced into liquidation - How anyone wgho calls himeslf a fan of this club can see that as preferable to having an albeit unpopular and error prone chairman at the club is beyond me so its its relevent - Its also a feckin disgrace.

Would you care to answer or comment with something intelligent? ....

It was a relevent point - perhaps a little tongue in cheek although I am not laughing, but Alpine is on record as saying admin was better than lowe.... If we run out of time and we have no buyer, and we face liquidation, will he still stick by that point? To me the club is BIGGER than any one man, should always be, yet obviously Alpine does not.... If the worst happens how will you feel?

Yes because you obviously know me so well.... although you seem to struggle with the concept that presenting all or both POVs and perspectives allows you to make INFORMED and INTELLIGENT choices, rather than being prepared only to listen to one side which is often bigotted, biassed and based on speculation and gossip.

If we go down .... we dont want no feckers crying on camera alright? ;-)

LOL... sorry BBB, but surely you must recall Del Boy's classic miss use of words?

Very droll.... The point about Wigley IS relevent because he would never have had the job had fans not reacted so bitterly and to be honest rather childishly - Hoddle has never been a favourite of mine, cant stand the guy really with all his 'beliefs' but he would at the time have been a far better choice had fans not over reacted. Some reacted because he was a Judas and some because of his Lowe links - not every fan is the same you know....

NO one would deny this, the policing, the inabilty to manage and control crowds and the way in which fans were treated as cattle and herded was a disgrace and if anything, hopefully this has now changed. But can someone help me out here, and I make no apologoes for asking this question, because its also an important point, how and why were there so many more fans there than had tickets? did the police just round them up and herd them into the open stand? Did fans without tickets try and get into the ground? If so do those without tickets not have to acknowledge their part in it? I dont know what the truth is on that as there have been so many conflicting reports, but it sometimes eems that as soon as anyone asks that question, you are accused of somehow being disrespectful to the tragedy and those who lost their lives. Thats not the case, but I would like to know from thsoe that do know more about how things unfolded that day. Apologies, just saw the end of the thread.

Yup, but dont forget come FRIDAY we will be millionaires

Back to your obsessions UP? Now asking provocative questions becomes 'irrelevent' in your mind, or challenging the fact that getting all worked up because someone left the club (How dare they) might be an over the top reaction? - even if it is the majority - 'negative' passion and baring grudges is one of the saddest and frankly most juvenile of fan attributes - too many would rather cut off noses to spite faces. Lowes stock was 'pretty good' ? - no, just ignored as we were doing better. ad he been responsible for bringing back the 'Judas' it would certainly have been crap again....

But hey according to Alpine, it would have all been worth it as we got rid of that '****' Lowe...... 'no club? pah, at least its no club without Lowe...'.....

Thing is CB, he was not failing with us - he had us in the top half and potentially pushing for urope when he went to Spurs - not a fan of him personally, but he was doing something right and would he have been better than wigley?