Frank's cousin

...and what of the 30K against Man Utd? I guess the board resigned before that one as well before reinstating themselves after teh defeat ;-) TBH its not actually funny, I dont blame fans and it is the clubs responsibilty, baord, manager and players to put on ashow fans are prepared to pay and watch, but we cant deny the impact of fans not attending... it smply shows that we dont have the fanbase to sustain lower league football that will have sufficient quality of players, entertainment and success that matches our expectations.

Firstly the responsibilty of any business is to ensure its customers are satisfied and to budget effectively and according to its projected income. So the full responsibilty for teh current predicament lies with the clubs directors, not just Lowe and Wilde, but also due to the spending of Wilde and Crouch. The projected revenue for teh year would have taken into account the summer lay offs, the possible need to dup further high agers in Jan and a good estimate of projected gate receipts This last one the gate has gone down for a number of reasons, but principly because what was on show was not appealling enough to suficient fans. Now we can argue til we are blue in the face about why fans stayed away, and Lowe, the manager he selected and teh players performance all count toward producing a product that too few wanted to see. So they need to take the responibilty for creating a product that was not appealling enough to suppotr our cost base. The only thing the fans need to accept is that like it or not, the ONLY or main revenue source is the gate so this going down by 30% will IMPACT on the club. The controversial question is not who is responsible, because I believe thats pretty clear cut (if ultimately unfair) but what is the true size of our fanbase which should be represented by those who will go whatever - however badly we play, whatever the results - because ultimately thats how its judged. Luton town are not credited with a 40k fanbase because thats what they took to Wembley, but the 4000 whoo go week in week out - Its nnot judged when its easy to support, like the 30k+ against Man Udt, but when its hardest to support like next seasson in League 1.

Quite vbelievable if we had indeed committed financial irregularities a la Luton etc - but we have not - everything has been avbove board - we just ran out of money after not being able to off load high wage earners quickly enough as gates receipts fell - lest we forget the mast majority of our debt is not over indulgence on players and wages - but infrastructure - money loaned when in the prem and easily serviceable - no one has done anything dodgy, we are just symptomatic of many clubs who have spent a long time in a division where the entire club infrastructure and cost base was based on Premiership income, not being able to adjust in time to a massive reduction on relegation. ;-) the only point of contention on this would be if asked why we spent 7.5 mil under wilde (which Mr Crouch did NOT veto as FC Chairman at the time) - when we knew it was gamble that if it failed would though us into turmoil?

Yes butthe problem here will be that as we are in admin, how many will pay up front when we dont know whether teh club will exist next season? NOt sure what teh degree of protection wis likely to be if you pay up and it folds - unless we all pay on credit cards and get that protection?

To be fair alpine, if we did not have the debt burden, I suspect we would ahve been sold last year when Crouch was confident taht investment would happen any day now...3 months, 6 months...9 months etc - thats no disrespect to Crouch- but you ahve to admit that both he and Wilde PROMISED investment and niether delivered - the only real potential from SISU was rejected by Crouch as well - Lowe on teh over hand never promised any such like, so if viewed in that context they are all pretty similar.... bad at finding new investors, or just a symptom of the difficulty of finding investors prepared to potentially Lose out in such a high risk business as football?

Looking back it was a bit sureal - to date, my only pitch invasion! - Full of optimism and hope for the coming season as Pearson did seem to have something about him. I have commented on understanding Lowes logic of going continental with the kids, but I would still love to know WHY he did it at that time. I dont believe its somee childish Crouch hire thing, more his own ego driven belief that the Ajax model was the way forward as he always seemed into that. Why do I believe that? Because I dont think even Lowe was that stupid to have missed the feelgood we had in that survival campaighn with Pearson as the talisman and he must surely ahve realised that he would have been granted some positives had he kept that going, so I can only think that it was a true belief that as we were at the bottom of the CCC, with the only way being up it was teh right tiome to risk the new set up. He was wrong as it turned out, and as many have said was predictable - I disagree with the certainty of failure, but appreciate the risk was very great. What has happened since has obviously cemented the reality that it was a mistake of the greatest magnitude, but it is impossible to predict for sure how Nigel would have done with the more limited resources available than he had at the end of last season - but we did at the very least have some momentum, and its difficult to factor in how that would have been effected by the departures we had last summer and the promotion of the kids to the 1st team squad.

To be fair, I suspect Crouch is involved in one of the consortia maybe in some capacity, so its good PR as well - have no problem with anyone rallying the troops, we need all teh supoport afterall. Lowe's recent publicity rounds as you will agree were mostly about trying to save face and defend himself, but at teh very least he did say that teh Club was the most important thing right now and he would do anything he could to help... which is fair enough. The CLUB is the most important thing, and whilst the ultimate wish is a club free for ALL its recent boardroom burdens with fresh new blood without a 'history' - we need anything and all the help we can get right now from any source, especially if it results in our survival.

Just a note of caution - we blame teh PLC set because of all that is attributal to LOwe and teh various boards - but its not teh PLC set up itself thats to blame, but the way in which it wa operated - the PLC set does have some pros, such as teh financial safeguards etc. If we become a limited company with a single owner, they will have far more power to do as they please with the club and its assets - should not eb problem, but you never know - and if we end up hating him, we cant have shareholders vote him out!

To be fair, this was on the cards BEFORE Pearson had been kept us up - Wilde alluded to a continental approach back in early April last year, so perhaps not just down to 'Crouch hired. Lowe fired' - I think its a bit naive to believe that these guys are making these decsions to be vindictive - I think Lowe just thought it was the right way to go - youth, Ajax type model - logical from that perspective, but maybe it should have been more obvious to him that in teh CCC rough and tumble it was not going to work? Who knows, it showed early promising signs in the type of football being played, and I hoped and believed perhaps naivly that the results would come.... ... naturally the more success Pearson has the more stupid the decision looks - had JP managed to achieve something, that would have been vindicated - but its on these decsions that reputations are made or destroyed I guess.... Its a bastard world! ;-)

Think that is obvious though - only a miracle will allow us to survive and then we will probably get the points deduction anyway - loophole or not, I believe the FL also have the power to impose points deductions on sides that as a result of financial jigerery pokery, avoid having to pay of debts accumulated through their normal trading irrespective of administration, so I think we are down - and if we do go down, the league might agree with the loophole to cllsoe the matter. So interested parties should barein mind the need to ensure its not just teh bare minimum that is paid off but a substantial amount of the debt otherwise the FL as I understand could impose further penalties...

The Wilde coming back is obvious to me (although naturally only speculation) - he did not like what he was hearing about losing control of decsions made on realisation of assetts - especially teh Jacksons farm situation - if there was going to be developments on this sort of scale, he wanted in - and wanted be in control of the bids and tenders - well thats my speculation anyway. Lowe...what about Rupert Lowe? He is certainly a glutton for punsihment and I am not sure how many times he would venture back to try and prove himself, that his methods and strategies will work. Its that aspect that I can understand - he does not want to give up , wants to be seen as the guy who put the mess right - the sentiment is honorable - but given the imapct it would have negatively on teh club, its the last thing he should do IF as he says he does want to help - If he wants to help, he sghould stay well away - sure help tap up anyone who might be interested but DONT get involved - there is too much pain and water on that particular bridge whetehr all justified or not. Did he/does he care about SFC ? TBH I think and believe he does - I have some anecdotl evidence to that effect from footballing discussions held between lowe and one of his staff in Oxfordshire, that he grew to be a fan and that his prodest moment was seeing the sea of yellow at Cardiff etc. BUt loving teh club is not enough and as someone once said - if you love something, set it free!

Just a tad paranoid ;-) but Ok lets assume you are right - Whats in it for him? Why would he put himself through all that abuse that would naturally follow? Ther is no money to be made and no ego massage because its hardly glamourous and the fans will give him stick from day one - so cant see this at all - thankfully.

I would hate this to happen - we need a NEW start that everyone can get behind..

My definitive take on Lowe: 1. Not out of spite - out of despiration to make good, but no plan B for when revenues did not meet forecast - as a result of poor perfromances ensuring declining gates 2. Arrogance and ego that drove some of the few successes, also wrecked or prevented even good ideas and concepts from working - eg, Nowt wrong with SCW at SFC - major problem with Timing, communication, role clarification and getting buy in from existing employees, media and fans... 3. Made no real effort to win fans over - which would have made fans more receptive to some of his ideals - open constructive dialogue would have benefitted all, but that needs to be based on trust and mutual respect - Lowe never admitting mistakes or errors of judgemnet and public gaffs means no trust or respect. 4. Prudence: hated by some as showing 'no ambition' - agian because approach, budget, forecast was badly communicated, but for me one of the few good things - refused to be sucked into the high risk spend culture in the premiership - and lived within our means - something that ALL clubs should be FORCED to do IMHO. 5. Managers - failed to grasp the 'culture' (which although I dont like either) of the traditional manager that most playesr are brough up on and are used to. Did not like their 'free' hand on transfers based on suspicions of 'unnecesssary spending - hense ****ed of a few who left with replacements resulting in wasted money /additional spending anyway... its a subtle black art that he never learned - as long as the manager thinks he is in control, or the relationship is open and honest its OK, but LOwe's paranoia did see the end of a few. 6. Hes gone - we move on, its agame afterall.

I HOPE we still get to see some decent football and dont fall in line with the majority of lower league stuff - we need to keep our ideals strong.

As I understand it: SLH owns the only shares in SFC Ltd and SMS Ltd - but where it gets complicated is in who owns the other assettts, Jacksons Farm, Staplewood and player registrations etc...

Come on guys, lets think about what we could achieve in our 125th not the misery of failure - we have ghad enough of that these past few seasons...

Ince has the qualities, but has already shown he will jump to a bigger club after a smidgeon of success - for me it would be someone more like Dowie, simply because of his connection but morer importantly Experience - I certainly dont wnat Franny or MLT as some suggested they might have the enthusiasm and love for the club, but I'd hate to see their reps suffer wif unsuccessful. Sadly who we get will depend on what is being offered by the new owner....assuming we get one.

Can you afford the Mont Cervin? Its very exclusive you know ;-)

The sadest part in all this is that they already looked resigned to going down at teh Charlton game - no spirit - I can put up with lack of abilty, we simply aint got the cash fro great footballers, but there is NO excuse for not giving a sh! t or simply giving up... fight to the deat and show the fans you care and we can forgive errors, and defeats.

Cheers buddy - glad you took this in the spirit it was intended - we will probably never see eye to eye on some things, which is fine, but we are ALL Saints fans and the club needs us now more than ever - it may be a cheesy love in, (Fondue? ;-)) but the truth is if we want to rebuild we need strong foundations and that starts with fans willing and determined to have one voice behind the team, the club and board going forward - Halleluja COYRs The future's uncertain, but the future IS red and white

Next Season/year will mark our clubs 125th year - from humble beginnings to early FA cup disapointmnet at the turn of teh century, through working our way up through the 3rd div south, to the 1st division under Ted, Lawrie's success, the second place in '84 and a founding member of the new premiership... the sea of yellow in Cardiff, to the quite rapid decline of teh last 5 years, we certainly as fans have been through the mill. The fall out from this latest debacle and the administration is not yet known, but its now likely we will start next season - our 125th year, in division 1 - the first time back in the third tier for some 49 years (Duncan correct me if I am wrong). Lets think positive and assume we will still be inexistence, and the club shop will create special shirts with special badges which we will flock to buy, but apart from that, what do you think should be our aspirations for next season when all the dust finally settles? Getting straight back up?, promotion in our 125th year? Or simply begin the rebuilding process - ensuring the foundations are strong? What are we hoping for from a new owner (realistic please), what gates do we expect, will the 'saints' true spirit return en mass, or will we see further decline? I dont have a crystal ball, but I do think there will be a lingering pain, that will slowly begin to ease as results improve, getting players in who WANT to achieve at THIS club, who have that passion for success and solidarity with their team mates and fans - what manager? what style? what ambition?

thats some alliteration! ;-)

Well strichtly speaking it could be very simple, if there was someone out there with the funds to buy all the assets of the pLC and guarrantee the creditors in full... the honorable way of doing things, buy teh club for £1 and then pay off the debts and build anew... but like in all these things the few serious parties, whilst hopefully good intention, probably wont be that loaded and will be making the deal complex by wanting to negotiate on the debt, o buy only single assets...

Indeed a scary thought....