Frank's cousin

Cheeky bastard! ;-) Thing is guys but so what if we make it to the season end with Crouch's money - unless we get bought it will mean feck all anyway and as I pointed out elsewhere, why ahs he been so vocal about 'giving 'it to us?

Duncan in response to your points: 1) Anyone you contributes to our survival deserves respect for that - and I applaud every single person who ANONYMOUSLY put their hand in theior pock and made a contribution - for you or I £20 is like £50k for Leon, so we have to be realistic, but how come we KNOW about Leon's personaly contributio? BECAUSE he darn well wants us to - it might eb a positive thing but you dont have to be cynical to see the reasons for the public disclosure of these contributors - its ebven on the web site - get your name here if you give a grand or more? I would put the name in lights of the unemployed guy or pensioner who donated her last few quid as a higher priority... thats just a personal perspective. Leon di not contibute the greatest percentage - teh fans did so you could say if it had not been for teh fans there would not have been a match for Lowe to attend.... 2) Now he is just a fan - did you expect him to stop making crass decisions? - BUt ponder this for a moment - WHOI THE FECK RELEASED THIS SNIPPET OF INFORMATION? It was on the OS FFS - the fact he was attending was released into the public domain for this VERY reason by someone who had something to gain from this.... I wonder who? Had someone NOT released this no one would have been the wiser and no one would have cared - I would suggets this leak did not come from Lowe.... thats why I am more disspointed in Crouch grabing a PR opportunity to get mileage out of this than in Lowe being insensitive in attending this game. I dont think we would have wanted this to get oput for the reason we see now..... I suggest we should all ponder that for a moment... the games are continuing despite niether party still being involved....

Amen... feck had almost given up on seeing a common sense on this forum... I am not always the best at expressing what I mean so the tangled webs I weive do come back to haunt.

I still dont understand how anyone can LET Lowe spoil things or get you so wound up - just dont let him him have these hollow 'victories' - ignore him... If you look at those threadsthat end up in this debate they are njot started by LOWE, but by the same old same old WANTING to get a reaction - they cant simply let Lowe dwindle into insignificance. Its amazing that fans get so wound up about was is pretty insignififcant in teh grand scheme of life - sorry but if you belive football and thus LOwe feck ups be so important as for you a) to hate him, b) to let him going to a game wind you up, c) be so obssesedd that you cant let a day go by without whinging about him on here, then that kinda suggests that you need to get out more and get a life ...Lowe is just a bloke - who happened to get lucky and get involved in football - he did some good, lots of bad and made mistakes that feck us - not intentiaonally, but ultimately that dont matter, we got relegated - happens in sport .. so get over it ---- new boys wanted to turn things around, spent some monety we did not ahve -, nearly pulled it off, but the risk meant we were buggered as a result - onld boys return, what to turn around teh losses, try something bizarre, but cheap and if fails so the banks lose patience, admin, FL stroppy... what happens next we dont know... ITS FOOTBALL FFS. Some of you go on as if you have nothing else worth living for or going on in your lives - and that is rather sad.

I think the problem is actually quite simple - I dont believe there are any, certainly not many who fail to acknowledge that Lowe decison directly led to our situation. ON that most will agree. What is argued by me and some others is that a) this was not done with malice or intent, b) there was some logic in some of these decisons, even if they were ultimately to fail c) there were others who also contributed - and its not a question of how long they were relatively in charge, but what they did or failed to do whilst they had that power or could influence that power, which is why Wilde and Crouch ARE also culpable. d) Can not understand how those wishing administration was preferable to the previous regime - we could go out of business FFS and yet some were advcating this as a suitable method of chaning the board - are these folk stupid? e) there seems to be some that have so closely aligned themselve sto Mr CRouch that they dont even get the irony - they spent the last few years criticising anyone who had anything positive to say about LOwe (even when balanced against the failings) that theywere sychophantic or blindly stupid ignoring teh negative - yet they are now doing exactly the same in their blinkered support opf CRouch - have they no sense of self awareness or irony?

Thing is, I dont actually think Lowe would have accepted or attended had anything still been riding on this game - as its all over and there is nothing on it, cant really see the problem to be honest - we need to move on and thats only possible when we let go of the past - while we continually let it follow us around and build this thing up out of all proportion, the ghosts will never depart - as for Crouch, well you know me, just never really liked his shoot from teh hip, open gob before engaging brain style - yup he has dipped into his pocket, cant argue with that, but I just cant help feeling he still thinks this is all about some popularity contest - the reason he struggled with difficult and unpopular decison making IMHO - If LOwe was tooo ego driven into thinking only HE had teh answers and teh rst of us were too stupid to understand, I think Crouch was too eo driven by the desire to be SEEN as th saviour. Many on here have repeatedly criticised LOwe for his presence in the media - and quite catagorically stated the chairman should be almost anonymous - fine cant argue with that and Lowe should have been doing just that, and when he did not he was rightly criticised, but yet Crouch is popping up all over the place as the 'voice' and alot of what he has had to say has either been factually wrong or embarrassing... sorry just MHO. OK so Crouch is no longer chairman, but he is certainly trying to act like one.... Lowe out, not to return I can happily live with. Lowe is this that and making a fuss about him being at forrest just seems to playing into his media desperate hands. Crouch sticking his ore in smacks of the desire to be in the public eye - sorry but I dont think putting money in 'BUYs' you the right to your opinion carrying any more weight that anyones elses. I just wis Crouch would show some dignity - shut up and stop shaking buckets at folks who struggle to afford a ticket in these hard times - has he no sense of irony? For him 50k is like a fiver for us... Lowe, is crass, we dont expect any diffrenet so why everyone making abig deal is what I simply dont get... he is not worth it surely?

Sorry Uncle Rupert told me not to talk to the stupid boys from the special needs school. Anyway I think Uncle Lowe could take the little Crouchey in a fight anyday...

Docker, Lowe is guilty, we know this, did he do it deliberately? NO Crouch fecked up also did some good, but should be kept out the media (bor be advised better) - did he do this deliberately? NO. 12 years of Lowe was not 12 bad years but the last one in the prem, and the recent return. Crouch HAS contributed to this mess - whether we or he likes it or not, so should have the grace at the very least to to keep quiet about it, especially after his recent gaff... Lowe attending Forest may well be a crass decision, but it will only be an issue if fans make it something its not - and fed the publicity machine on which Lowe thrives - ignore him is the best policy

no no no don't you dare be so negative.... administration and not having a clue what that means for the future of our club, potentially being sold on the cheap to some local consortium that has no money and no clue is what we wished for... ;-)

Again I dissapoint, filled to the brim with plastic scousers as most schools were in the 70s and 80s... Did Leon go you yours? Or is there a shrine in your house to the Crouchmaster?

Sorry, just disagre - I can see the OBVIOUS effect this having as we see by this thread, what I find a bit daft is WHY - just ignore the tosser and thats by far the best way to insult him... the way it loks now is that he has once again succeeeded in winding up those who he considers ignorant...

Sorry to dissapoint but I went to state school.. but hey dont want to spoil your 'fantasy'

Fair points, but had we not been in admin, and Lowe was still here, he would ahve been in the directors box whatever was riding on this game TBH... I am just finiding it difficult to understand why folk are so up in arms with all thhis hysteria about how 'insulting it is' - etc - so what I really dont give a tos about LOwe, he can do what he likes now. Its only and issue for fans if they let it be - and naturally its a great excuse to get all 'hot and bothered' over Lowe again when the reality is he is insignifiicant now - let it go is what I would say - if he is as evil a bastard as some believe surely he is not even worth teh effort of acknowledgement - by getting allwound up by, you are creating exactly the kind of publicity about all this the Lowe probably wants - if fans really do still habve teh need to insult him, teh best way of doing that is ignoring him.

I used to be angry - at whats happened, I used to find the fans on here funny in their huffing and puffing vitriolic abuse of one man, without applying the same evaluation to everyone involved - and then claiming a 'balanced' opinion - ironic certainly - but now I just find it sad.... so at a level that I am sure even you will be able to understand ... Once upon a time, there was a nasty big bad wolf called Rupert trying to blow down the the the in which the lovely little piggies lived, that house was called St Mary's cottage, but when the wolf ran out of puff and gave up, the little piggies had been so 'down trodden' and 'vitimised by the bad wolf that they in effect suffered a kind of wired Stockholm syndrome effect, went outside and started huffing and puffing to blow their own house down and then continued to blame the effects on the wolf Rupert who had since departed...

Jeez if it keeps going like this there will come a point where its easier just to give those teams not in admin 10 point head start and start everyone else on 0 - ;-)

I am beginning to think you cant actually read ... Lowe mistakes and how they ahve contributed to the mess has never been in doubt- and he needs to be judged on those. All i have ever said is that a) I dont believe these wer done with the malice and ignorance that some of you 'wise' folk believe, b) he is not the only guilty party, c) Crouch is not the answer - so tell me how that is pro Lowe?

Have you replaced Alpine as the forum clown? Whatever, believe what you want, I really dont give a flying feck. The simple difference between you and me is that I would not be happy with anyof them, yet somehoow there are those still of the naive belief that Crouch is the saviour - kep bending over and clasping your arse chheks matey ;-)

Having said that though Duncan, do you not feel that Crouch's comment on this was a tad hypocritical? We know that Lowe is so brass necked, and bullish that he probably does not even think about the potential impact his presence may have, and also believes he has teh right solution.... but Crouch seems unable to keep his gob shut and out of controvercy?

The ONLy positive about all this and what gives me hope that a deal will eventually be done is that we actually know VERY little about any of teh proposals as its behind closed doors - teh way it should be done, but that does not mean we will all like the outcome...

Whilst 700K for surman seems low, it does seem realistic given teh circumstances - BUT I am surprized that fans seem to be accepting of this .... can you imagine the stick Lowe would have got if he was the new owner and this was the first thing he did? ;-)

Am I the only one to just find the hysteria about this funny? Jeez guys the bloke is there because he is mates with the Forest chairman. And this turns into some sort of panic that spreads like wildfire that me is involved in one of the bids? Based on no evidence whatsoever.... you lot need to chill a bit. Then we have the twofaced hypocracy of Crouch who has not been absent from SMS despite his contribution to the situation - he may not eb as culpable as LOwe, but he is not totally blameless either so he should STFU as well. Finally, I really dont think or want him to return, but all those who were jumping for joy and wishing administration on us as a vehicle to get rid of Lowe were warned - there would be nothing to stop him commingback, and worse than that, no shareholders who could be lobbied to prevent it - be careful waht you wish for as they say....

See I would say at least 4 as you ahev to include Leon as much as it pains you to do so.... because he COULD have prevented/vetoed the overspend under Burley as Football club chairman - but he chose not to believing Mr Wilde and his mysterious investors - naivity at best - failure to or refusal to be seen as the one making the 'anti-football' decisions take your pick -

Speculation and booloox IMHO - the bottom line is simply 28 mil of debt owed - with the need to negotiate with AVIVA - IF anyone has pulled out it wont eb because they looked atteh books which will tell them we owe surprise surprise 28 mil, but that the cost are X and anticipated revenue is £YK a week so unless we get a subsidy from the new owner or get rid and sell all teh higher wage earners and start again - we woudl continue to loose money hand over fist - so they are probably too small to make a difference...or realised that any deal wioth Aviva would cost too much...

Its complicated - naturally if the assets were sold individually, then the administrator would divi up teh proceeds etc but its complicated by teh fact that Aviva probably have the first call on SMS - but sold without a football club is perhaps worth at best 4-5mil. If I wer Aviva, and someone came in and bought the club and staplewood say for 4mil that could then go all to Barclays, I would simply negotiate say a 40 year mortgage on SMS at a rate that is affordable to teh club on teh understanding that it gets teh full 24 mil + interest back - If thats possible then a consortium could come in and make a real difference with as little (realatively) as 8 mil, buy the club for 4 mil from the administrato and 4 mil capital to help towards building a realistic 1st div quality team...with a 3-4 year plan to get back to teh prem.. where teh additional funds come from is the gate - success should breed a greater average gate ..... in theory

....no fags for 3 days.... ;-(