Frank's cousin

Pro CRouch fan cant stand any criticism of his master...oh and if you listen, tell me you are happy with that performance...and by the way, I am just as happy Lowe has gone as I am saddened by the whole mess.

Well I could tell ya boy bit it would cost ya about 50 twenties in a brown envelope ;-)

Thats all clutching at straws really - sure when we moved it meant we were attractiing a different kind of player, possibly some who would have stuck tehir noses up at us had we still benn a club at the dell, and yes not perhaps having as many layers who genuinely cared about the is bound to have an impact. But the DELL was always going to limit what was possible - there was simply not enough revenue nor shoudl a club ignore the fact that they have a huget ST waiting list or even membership waiting list - NO investing in SMS was the right thing to do.... our decline has been primarily about bad investmnet since - multiple managers buying quantity to get tehir team rather than quality to augment someone elses - simply put we wasted money on dross signings that did not improve the squad - and in te premiership you need to improve each year just to stand still - in mitigation we did not have the financial backing most other clubs had from rish owners or backers, but mistakes were made - SMS was not one of them though.

LOL ;-) need to get some typing lessons for sure

Or.... BUT thats how you could look at it if cynical - I and most intelligent folk will recognise that teh debt as it stand s in made up of two main creditors the largest of which is the Stadium Loan - a loan taken out duringa period of sustatined Premiership revenue well within the budget and well managed and affordable. This is not debt accumulated in some idiotic fantasy football attemppt at glory, but a solid attempt to develop the facilities and infrastructure for our fans and comunity that will benefit football as a whole and help promote teh game to a greater audience. IN other countries clubs can rely on local taxes to fund such projects, we could not. How anyone connected with football can see this as anything but a genuine attempt to improve the experience for fans and teh community is beyond me. Why even England played their when wembley was built showing this investmnet to be supportive of teh entire football family - I think Mr Mawhinneys actions and commenst fail to recognise the importance and necessity of such investment - made at a time remember when it was well within the affordabilty of the PLC. This was as should be obvious from results never about gambling the clubs future on quick glory, The FL is sadly misguided in this matter.

What Crouch should have said: 'You have to remember SLH was set up as a parent company for a number of businesses in 1997 following a reverse takeover of teh clubs asssets. The buiness interests of SLH have been diverse for the obvious ownership of teh football club its self, to media activy such as a commercail radio station, Insurances servicves and various other interests. The Football club was only ever one of a diverse number of businesses. During the last coupel of years, interest from others has led to the PLC divesting from some of these, leaving for teh present SFC Ltd as the main company with SMS ltd as the otehr priomary asset of the group. This is bad timing for sure as it could be misinterpreted by some taht SLH has only footballing realted assets but as you cans see from teh plans already in place and put together by Mr Wilde they are also committed to property developmnet as well as other non footballing relating business opportunities - thes plans would already be under way had it not been for teh credit crunch of last year and the impact on development projects of all types - Should SFC really be penalised for the impact of the gloabl financial crisis on teh other parts of the groups holdings?'

The problem I think these guys have is that they look to anything that might give them credibility or popularity with fans when they come in - afterall everyone knows haow suspicious fans can be and also how vitriolic if things go badly. Crouch used brininging LM and MC bvack into the fold as useful PR exercise to win favour with thjsoe that felt these Saints folk had been in the wilderness and snubbed by Lowe... The problem is he brought in two very vocal anti previous regimers, and whilst taht was likely to go down well with fans of a similar mindset, these old long lasting antagonistic relationships became the overriding issue, tat-for-tat childish arguments and PR stunts meant the real issues were not the focus of everyones attention - nor was it possible to try and least find constructive solutions to teh problems - that would never go away whilst a large shareholding was controlled by those not represented on the baord. That is where I think crouch was most naive - cosying up to LM and MC when he should have been determined to find some common ground and a strategy forward - It was no good falling out with Wilde when the investors promised failed to show up, he should have put his foot down and said no to the spending until it did! Kicking Wilde out was another blunder as wilde was way to self interested not to want a part of teh action or control and tehre was only one way back in if not with Crouch. I am sure CRouch is a decent honorable bloke, has achieved a fair bit in business and does love teh club, but this latest gaff is just another in his history that shows he is way to naive anbout running a football club - its more than just about perception and popularity with fans. We may not like the idea of our club as a business, but we are governed by business rules multiplied by the media spotlight. Crouch just aint suited to it.

Top Bloke, Top Keeper, True Saint Kelvin, you give me hope!

To be fair this day was going to be inevitable when we failed against Derby - having risked a 7.5 mil 'push' for promotion - the Wilde AND Crouch strategy, and it not coming off, short of having a few other Theo's to sell on we were on the financial downward spiral - the very thing the FL rules are designed to discourage - the punishment is designed to STOP clubs risking everything on a promotion push.

Everty club needs a CRouch type ... who does provide a link between fans and teh Directors Box, but if that naive with the media, he should be kept OUT of its path...

Sadly that was exactly how it came across...

Dont get me wrong, I agree, I think Leon has always been the most obvious true fan and is passionate about the club, but he is incredibly naive in press/media matters and speaks first before realising the consequences - the 'admission' that the holding company was set up to avoid a penalty should it ever happen, could nnot have been a bigger gaff!

Sorry, but he did say that we wonly set up the holding companny to avoid teh penalty - which is total ****** and Mawhinney jumped straight on it and then pPleat came in with how it was doubly important that clunbs should not get awy with it.... Give him a break? happy to support him in his fund rasining and keeping the club alive, that is all good, but he should have kept his mouth shut on that subject because it was clear he had absolutely no idea what he was talking about and gave FALSE infomation....

I have complained to the Admin about these pathetic death wishes and idiotic comments. Its feckin shameful and makes us look like a complete bunch of thick moronic arseholes - you should be ashamed of yourselves. Micheal. I have little time for you in that in your managemnet decisons you have let down this club. Broken promises and mistakes led to massive distrust and now we see the consequences. However, on behalf of all decent Saints fans and that is the vast majority please accept our apologies for teh disgusting and dispicable comments made by the few morons on this thread. They are not representative of us fans.

Anyone else hear him... did not sound very impressive, bumbled his way through several questions or did not answer, came across bullish about appealing, but could not give a reason why, or even indicate if we had a leg to stand on... not impressed I'm affraid.

Should have kept hold of the radios station and insurance company - as proof of additional companies....

I can appreciate that many might have concerns over these initiatives or unanswered questions, that is only natural and part of the personal due diligence that we should all do before committing to anything. But is there really this continual need by many fans to constantly grip whinge laugh at and have a go at anyone or anything that ahs been attempted historically or now, so the Trust never took off as was hoped, does that diminish it as an idea or concept or should those who tried be victimised? FFS they are just fans trying to do their bit, sometimes it goes wrong, sometimes they are wrong, but the you cant criticise if you are not prepared to get involved yourself. If you have experience and skills that mean you can seriously recognise errors or mistakes why not offer them? it could only improve things. To me it seems some of you have personal issues with tha characters involved - teh only reason its teh same old same old is because its the same old same old prepared to get off tehir arses and do things - that stubborn refusal to give in to the criticism from fan most of it unjust - no wonder no new folk step forward if this is the abuse that they get for their efforts - If you dont like teh trust - join it and CHANGE IT. If you have questions or concerns aboyut these initiatives ASK them courteously, Derry has been trying to answer as many questions as he can despite the rudeness from some quarters... they are just trying to do their bit FFS Rant over....for now.

We do have to appreciate that Fry cannot disclose details of the bids received and under review - nor can he indicate externally anything re figures that might undermine potential or future bids in terms of settlements with both Barclays or Aviva....from teh SLH persspective - BUT surely what is being debated by teh ootball league is whether SLH and the club are seperate entities and if so do we qualify for the loophole. However, SFC is s seperate entity and is currently not in administration, which is the claim, but feeling the pinch as costs are outstripping revenues and will do even more significantly over the summer period, and therefore the club needs money now to keep going, then I see no reason why the questions mentioned above cannot be answered - What is the current monthly shortfall? What is being done by SFC ltd itself to reduce costs How long have we got etc before it goes tits up? - As i understand it the problem for the club is now not getting sold, but getting an income. The club is simply an asset of SLH who in admin are determined to sell teh asets to realise capital to pay of teh SHL creditors - SFC Ltd, as an asset is losing money as cost outstrip revenue so without cash the club itself will end up in admin and liquidation v soon. but how soon and to what extent? Crouch has pros in his donantions to date, and I am sure he does care, but he is also in part responsible for the mess - his lack of ability to make unpopular decisions have contributed directly to this - not vetoing the 7mil spend etc whn there was no guarantee of Wildes famed 'investors in teh wings' - dumping wilde after the event was a classic case of acting before due diligence was carried out - we spent when we could not afford it and THAT is what the football League and its points deduction is all about - preventing clubs from gaining an on teh field advantage by heavy borrowings which it cant sustain - whatever loophole exists, we cant say we did not try that....sadly and for that CRouch, LM and Wilde are all culpable in MHO. So whilst I agree he is doing his bit I dont understand why some still semm to worship at his particular alter....

Just think its a bit much when the very same folk asking for cash to save the club are being entertained in this manner - its the message its sends thats all - i know CRouch has personally contributed cash in excess of most others but its still seems a bit odd...

'kin hilarious - needed that laugh 0- email set Sir!

Yes but the adminsitrators fees are paid first! _ I know what you are saying, but thats why its a dilemma...

Ok So I can understand Mr Fry being there - although I hope he made his own sandwiches and brough a lask as should we be supplying him with a ourse and wine in outr current state? But What as Fitzhugh Fella pointed out right do Leon Crouch/Lawrie McMenemy/Mike Richards/Guy Askham have to 'lunching' here right now?

Stanely if you believe its been badly run, what /how would you have done it differently? Offer some practical advice to improve it if you feel that its crap. OK there are several reasons why the take up may or may not have been as expected. 1. Folk did not like/or like teh opinion of those on teh variious committees 2. Folk are naturally suspicious of anyone who stands for such things - we never seem tolike folk who eiethr put themselves forward or are nominated and accept (we see tham as pushy and egotistical) 3. the communication was confusing - mixed messages, registration an issue, cionfusion over what the aims were and what teh trust stood for - this last bit about aims though it was actually VERY clear. The trust would represent teh opinion of teh majority of its members - democracy in action - the committe could not tell you yet where the trsuts stood on an issue because during the recruiting phase it had not yet convased opinion from its members. If you believe it was a body that sucked up to Lowe, which dont believe, It woudl only ahve been the case if the majority of its members held taht opinion - thats was its mandate - if you did not liek this,, the trick was to get all the like minded antis to join and change this. And rem,ember what I said about the need for CONSTRUCTIVE ideals not single agenda politics if wantingto be taken seriously . The thing is whatever you believ about teh above, these guys did give a FECK and were prepared to do something - as Red Ken famously and rightly said - 'If you want me out, you should have the RIGHT to vote me out' - If you dont like waht the fan groups stand for you have two choices: stand on teh sidelines and moan, or join them and change what they stand for - Its pretty obvious to me what choice we would take says about us as people and as fans.

Thats fair enough, noone is saying it will be ideal or it wont be without its ups/downs and own problems, but at the very least its about a committment to the club, to keep it going and if it takes a few spats and tears to get to teh right solution so be it - but its about the knowledge that everyone WANTS the right solution even if they iffer on how to achieve it - thats democracy ;-)

Surely you would not get intio bed John Westwood.... you know taht imga ehas now penetrated my brian ARHRARRR ;-) You are right, we need practical realism - we have heard and read thousands of calls for unity over these last three years 0- yet the moment the factions try and work together, everyone begins slagging off one or the other.... FFS guys I I can book a virtual Holiday in Switzerland with Alpine Saint, the leats you can do is give these guys a chance - they just CARE.