Frank's cousin

To be Fair, they can take a stance that its not right to blame the club for the cheating - but ONLY if they then acknowledge that any results and success built with it is null and void and means nothing to them.... because whether the 'club' was at fault or not, it was the club and fans who gained and advantage from it.... In the leagl world, you are not innocent if you have benefitted from teh proceeds of crime and think that analogy works here to.

...which presumes you read them... not a problem if you simply ignore is it?

... points per game between will be a good indicator - however, there is a more rational thought process applicable - If we stay up then credit goes to BOTH nigel and MP, and if relegated then both take some responsibility, Nige for not getting enough from the first 22 games and so on... so far ewe have hardly had a downturn in results if you want to look at it in microscopic detail - and arguably we have stepped up in quality of play, building on the foundations Nige provided and now upping the pace and pressing. Not sure why there is a need to constantly judge between the two... As to Pushing on and the 'joke' that some think it is, best way to judge that potential is to look at how we are playing. But for defensive errors, we have begun more than holding our own in terms of chances, posession and quality of football - improve the defence and concentration and we aint that far off - but will need to add more strength in depth. Way I see it... there are some fans who are more concerned about the image of the club and how fans of other clubs perceive us than any thing else... egos too fragile to cope with media and other fans 'laughing' at us. Well plenty laughed when we fell down down the leagues, plenty laughed when we NC mentioned an established prem side within 5 years - plenty laughing now when he says top 6 within 3 years... well I would not bet against it and will enjoy the WTFILN if we do.

Good job to. If I wanted to provide short inane responses I would use twitter surely? Always hilarious how some on her have difficulty reading more than one sentance.

Alps fair play, you did post about him being sheidt... but given what followed its easy to see that in a different context. And yes I am fecked off - too often on these boards, we have this loose prejudice appearing, in typical 'casual' fashion... the 'I'm not racist but he was only chosen cos he was black' so sometimes you have to say something. So I am not calling YOU a racist. NOt sure what you were going to do about it had I been though - thats tought talk...mate!

What I am unsure about in this court case ,malarky is whether the judge has to rule strictly on teh value of the ground as a football ground, or whether he has to take into acount a) the value under alternative use or c) the fact that this is the security that Chinney holds against his 17 mil owed/ Secondly, I still dont understand why PFK have to sell the ground as part of deal - surely if Chinney holds it as security for his debt, but the value of the ground is less than the value of his debt, he should just be given FP and told thats it - he then has a choice, to sit on somthing that is worthless to him whilst the council refuse a chnage of use application, or lease it back at a reaasonabe rate so it get hims some cash... why the flying feck the Trust did not see this as an option is beyond me... ... and here's another thing - I am sure the trust are all fine upstanding individuals who if asked find it criminal that their club has twice in 2 years shafted so many creditors in a desperate attempt to win things and survive.... to cheat... etc... and that for thsi tehy balme the succession of owners, yet becasue they insist they want the ground for their bid to go ahead, they need to ineffect shaft someone to get hold of it - forget the fact that he has it as security, but they are still willing to begin their reign doing following the same kind of action they I am sure would be criticisng anyone else for....

Read it all again from the first post, look at what you have posted and ask yourself why you made those 'astute' observations.... thats the thing with prejudice, those who exhibit it are usually too ignorant to spot it in themselves.

... 'outraged' - jees... its a set of fecking stamps and some are getting their Knickers in a twist over the selection of Barnes? The fact you even raise the question that he was 'only included because he was black' is a sad indicment on your thinking - these are not meant to be the best players, but a selection - why I would argue why put Best on a stamp when he ruined 3 livers (other alcoholics are given 1 chance and some none)... Would have been better if it was icons you had influenced the game - then we should have had Cyril Regis ... sadly it appears all his efforts have had little impact on some of you.... wait dont tell me 'its political correctness gone mad'' ... the last bastian of the little englander who lacks teh self awareness to recognise their own prejudice - as for 'Dinger's comment - go f uck yourself you racist **** You lot should be fu c king ashamed

I think the issue was probably quite a simple one to start with - You have to remember (and I dont mean this as a negative) before NC and Marcus Came on the scene, they will probably not have had much knowledge and zero connection with the club. All they will have done is look at the books in detail during due diligence to understand everything that took the club to its knees - from the difficulty in remaining competitive without raking up debts under Lowe, to the succession of good intentioned but naive spending during Wilde, Crouch, and tangoman, to the too little too late attempts by Wilde and Lowe to save us from the inevitable. Although we can argue till the proverbial cows come home about the cost of ambassadorial roles to who 'deserves' certain privilages due to past contributions, they did quite clearly make a statement that all such stuff would stuss would stop and everyone would be expected to pay their way. Now whether that is a contributing factor to the 'fallings' out or not I dont know, but ultimately they did make it clear, so going on about it in the media is hardly going to ensure a happy relationship. Stelling proclaiming Matt should have free tickets for life when Matt revealed the issue of the cup tickets etc was certainly not going to help and shows how easy it is for these stories to take on a life of their own, especially when they only ever reveal one side ... If you ask anyone if ex players deserve special privilages, most will say it depends on their contribution - and Undoubtedly Matts was up the top 5 in the clubs history - and debating the exact order of that top 5 across the generations runs in the veins of any fan, but given the recent history, the statement that all would be expected to contribute going forward, surely most would accept that and hope the club would progress and regains some of its stature.? I remain unconvinced that NC fell out with Matt over Pinnacle - that was business and although Pinnacle delayed NC/Liebherr, Matss involvement was a figurehead when asked to do something for the club... he was perhaps naive in not checking who he was standing for, but well intentioned none the less. I do think there is an elelment to all this about club ownership - some fans take the emotional owership aspect way too seriously and believe they should be more embedded in the way their club is run and by whom... and foreign business men are welcomed for their cash, but expected to fall in line with the 'traditions' and expectations for the fans, its past and its 'culture' - sorry but those things are the past - history for sure and one that gives the club its identity today... BUT with new people as with new managers and players and each generation of new fans, it shoudl always be about the future, a new chapter and creating tomorrows culture - with the desire and aspiration to to be better than just relying on past 'glories' .... 4 FA cup finals, 1 win and a 2nd placed finish.... is not the stuff of legend. Looking forward rather than backwards does not mean forgetting the past, and the choice of president, the invite to the 76 winning side etc shows that its not a closed door, but the club can not be a slave to it either... You have to look forward. I wonder how much of it is down to the fact that many ex players/pro simply cant let go of the game when they finish and look to hang on to the club as more than just a fan? As important the history is, I want to see the club make NEW history, progress to new heights so that we dont have to keep looking abck at a single cup win, a few good seaosns in the 80s and a pile of genius goals from Matt - I want to see the new Matts come through teh academy, see us compete at a higher level and not just accept our place in the all time rankings. To much focus on the past whether glorious or unspectatualar, can be a burden and from NCs perspective, the recent past was far from glorious, its no wonder he does not spend too much time thinking about it.

Possibly becuase without teh HNWIs theye would never get even close to the 550k needed to pay of the non secured creditors... and the HNWIs probablys had ideas for that scrap of land?

You are 100% right, not genius, not luck, just logical common sense - which is is exactly what you need in a chairman making those decisions - there are too man chairman out making the wrong ones.

Feck me Kracken - you put on your comedy head this morning - a refreshing change Mate!

I would agree, but please request that you change your rather disturbing avatar.

Think you need to recognize that fans can admire, love and respect MLT for everything he has done for the club, but not be so sycophantic that cant see when he has dropped a bollo ck - and many simply believe that in this case he has - That does not detract from his iconic status over all, just makes him look a prat over this one matter - no different from all of us, we hope people ultimately judge us on our best, not our worst. In some respects its no different to the way some fans are judging NC - good and bad. Overall NC has delievered so far, but as you and others are happy to do (and righty so) he gets stick for his mistakes - thats all fans are doing in this case.

''I am sercure, I will get my money back''

I suspect this may well be too late....FFS Matt, go see NC, dont tell us about it, dont tell anyone, just give him a call and go see him. You can do good things - you might not agree on everything, but what you do agree on is that you want teh club to be the best it can be and REAL men look at what they have in commonand work on those things. Where they disagree, they respect the differences but focus on what they can achieve together - Make it happen and you would have so much respect and support.

The saddest thing is that if Matt has different ideas about the club, he was in a position to have influence on the inside if only he could keep things to himself. Getting back inside- sorting out the stuff with NC (Or better still doing so from the off) he could be a force for change. Whatevre else NC is, he is not stupid. He knows the the influence Matt has with hfans who idolise him, and having Matt on teh inside, perhaps in a fan liaison role could have been a very positive thing... guess at saints we are still a small club in the sense that there aint room for more than one ego... Sorry Matt but I can only assume you dont WANT to sort this out...

Well you phrase it a little better than me... but during all this the most ridiculous has been the infantile way in which he has used the media to 'joke' about it all - FFS getting Stelling, Merson and the other ex pros who either drank or gambled away or failed to invest their cash wisely and thus need to turn out on Soc Sat every other week to laugh at a guy who whether you like him or not, earns shed loads and was the most trusted confident and friend of Markus, a highly successful billionnnaire, is unbelievable (Jeff) - it undermines any credibilty oin MLTs issues, even if he has a genuine grievence...

Its the giggly school girl, 'aint it a laugh' sheidt he did on Soccer am that get me - its just not the behavious of someone with a credible and rational reason for taking action... I am propbably wrong, nothing surprizes me these days in what folk will litigate over... and if he has been badly treated and deseves redress, I hope he get it, but joking about it in public is not something I can respect.

Would probably be a leveraged buy out thus loading us up ith 60-70mil of debt in one foul swoop.... Hopefully, NC is more the type that will simply brush it off - say 'I tried' and feck him, let him say what he likes and carry on with the job in hand. I appreciate there are plent who will not like the way he works, operates and and some of the things he does - there are things I find uncomfortable, but I can only judge by the progress we see - and for me, forget the promotions, but the fact we have invested in the infrastructure and thus the future is the most important thing to date.

NO please dont go there... teh Orvile thing already has me in stitches - the reminder of a man who showed hi mobile phone to people with 'David Beckham' in his contacts is too much...

Ahr Jacko when he still had a face - mind you his plastic nose is probbaly all that is left now... sorry

Ok Kracken, what am I to believe? I am described as over complicating things, by one poster and over simplifying by the next... Guess I just cant please anyone these days...darn. Must ry harder to be more popular and just go along with forum elite POV I guess...

Something more than just being a rival bidder must have happened between NC and MLT to set this off - sory, I dont buy the 'delay' thing and all that - as to complicating it, not sure it is complicated, but FF was kind of insinuating there was more to it. I like Duncan, good passionate fan, decent bloke, but he is not adverse to a tease now and then.

No need to.