Fowllyd

Maybe, but I remember hearing a lot of the same stuff following the 1987/88 season. Pompey came up to the First Division and were relegated with barely a whimper - they were so bad they were as good as down before a ball was kicked. And yet they won at the Dell on the 2nd January 1988 - I remember that game well because I was there. Pompey were as awful as you'd expect; problem was, on that one day we were even worse. Anyway, after their inevitable relegation, I saw plenty of Pompey supporters quoted saying that it had been a great season because they'd beaten us at the Dell. Forget the abject performances, ignominious relegation and everything else - they won at the Dell. Plus ca change, eh...

It's squawk - A little squaw knows how to act.

9 is bray (sorry, hadn't read the whole thread, just the first post!)

"The Father of Loud" as he was known. A man who undoubtedly went up to 11.

In essence, it's the right given by the Football League for a club to participate in the FL's competition(s). Without the golden share, a club is precisely nowhere. That's why it's important. I'd like to think it actually took some physical form (a golden football would be nice, especially an old-fashioned one with laces), but it's probably just a sheet of paper.

I can see what you mean, but I don't think there'd really be a precedent set if Pompey get liquidated without receiving additional points penalties. The FL are quite entitled to wait until the position is clear before imposing further sanctions, and there's no point imposing anything on a non-existent club. Were a club to do as Pompey have, but then come through the administration process with playing squad intact and a CVA blown away, then I'd cetrainly expect the FL to impose very severe sanctions, just as I'll expect them to do so if Pompey somehow survive.

I wouldn't say that the League are endorsing anything, or at least not yet. It's probably most likely that they aren't sure what they can do, given that this exact set of circumstances hasn't come about since they brought in points penalties for administration. As there's no automatic penalty to be used, a decision will presumably have to be made by a meeting of the League's governing committee; so they'll either wait for the next scheduled meeting to come around, or they'll call a special meeting. As I recall, someone mentioned that Birch's reference to an eight-week time scale related to the next scheduled meeting of the League. In other words, they'll make their decision after the season finishes, not during it. After all, it's possible (though about as likely as Tal Ben Haim playing for free) that a buyer could be found who will honour the original CVA, in which case no additional penalty would be required. Another possibility (and a very strong one indeed I would think) is that the League are hoping that they won't even need a decision on any additional action. There's still a very good chance that Pompey as they are will cease to exist; if no buyer is forthcoming then this becomes a certainty. For all their brave words, the Supporters' Trust scheme can only possibly work if the current club is liquidated, as they don't have a hope in hell of raising enough to buy out Chainrai and Gaydamak otherwise. And, if liquidation does happen, Pompey will be out of the Football League's hair without causing them the trouble of having to do or decide anything at all. Sounds like the ideal outcome for the League to me.

About £32.5M more than they're worth I'd say.

A friend of mine posted it on Facebook earlier this evening, and I'm still chortling now. I think the sub-header really makes it!

Sometimes, you've just got to love auto-correct.

It was my 49th birthday that day as well! Awful result, but at least the beer helped ease the pain. The Charlton game was definitely worse though. From where we are now, it's great to look back!

Under what circumstances do you envisage liquidation and playing at Fratton Park then? If PFC is liquidated, the ground will be sold to the highest bidder, or at least that's my understanding. Do you really think that the highest bidder is going to be the trust or whoever else manages to cobble together a phoenix football club? And do you seriously think it'll be possible to maintain Fratton Park (an expensive commitment) on non-league gates? If you're not to be liquidated, then you need a buyer. Nothing doing there right now - if there were then the News would be shouting about it for starters. And what would a prospective buyer do about all those players who are on contracts way beyond the means of a Championship club, let alone one in League One? There's only a couple who are out of contract in the summer - Tal Ben Haim, I think, has a further year after that. You can't just kick them out, they have to agree to go. Now, it may well be that the payers currently out on loan are effectively off the books for good (if there are binding agreements for the loan club to take them for a small fee, or even for free, when the loan expires - this would make financial sense for Pompey); but the salaries of those who are left are still enough to send a League One club under. Hell, TBH alone would do that for half the clubs in League One. Put all this alongside a crumbling ground, surrounded by land owned by a former owner of the club, and other essential facilities (training ground and the like) which have to be rented from one body or another, and it doesn't look like a particularly attractive proposition. If there's no new buyer forthcoming, can Chainrai be prevailed upon to become PFC's owner once again? His interest is money, nothing else; so he'll only do this if it makes financial sense for him. Try as I might, I can't see that it will. He'll need to put money in before he can get anything out (those pesky players will want their salaries, quite apart form anything else), and it can't be long before the potential revenue is less than what he'll need to put in. Would he be able to find a buyer, as he did before? Again, try as I might, I can't see it happening - see my previous paragraph if you're wondering why. Some time ago, I remember you answering a post of mine. In my post I suggested that Pompey's best hope - in fact, their only hope - was in finding a lifelong supporter with a bottomless well of money. In other words, someone with both the funds and the motivation to sink loads of cash into the club. You agreed with this analysis, and I think it still holds now. So, in your view, has anything changed since then? We all know that Brian Howe would love to buy Pompey; in fact, he'd have loved to do it years ago. Problem is, he can't, because he hasn't got the money. Nor can he persuade anyone who would have the money to part with it in such a dubious cause. So, feel free to dispute the points above; you may well know stuff I don't. But on what, exactly, are you basing your view of the future?

After your last little intervention, I asked you a perfectly polite and genuine question. Here it is again, just in case you missed it before: Care to have a go at answering? Or are you really capable of nothing better than your usual "We'll be fine"? I have to say it's beginning to look that way.

He did a fantastic job in a very tricky away fixture at Malfoy Towers, but I think the knife he took in the guts in that game had a disastrous effect on his career.

So what do you think will happen then? As far as I can see you have no buyer in sight, not even any half-interested bidders (or at least none that could be taken seriously). Unless you get a load of players off your books altogether you'll still be haemorrhaging money, and there's always the minor matter of a charge on Fratton Park and a debenture against the club, plus ownership of the land surrounding Fratton Park. Or are you assuming liquidation and rebirth? And, if so, at what level and at what ground? It won't be Football League, it won't be at Fratton Park - or do you think otherwise? Given your constant comments such as that above, I'd love to know how you think things will pan out - and a pat "We'll be fine" won't do it. What do you foresee happening?

I think you're missing the most obvious explanation - they're all lying.

It certainly doesn't look like a pub any more; it's called Lennons, and has the look of a late-night venue from the outside - windows painted up and all that. I'll always remember spending Saturday evenings in there back in the 1970s, with Bob Pearce and his blues band doing their stuff.

What a fine thread - heartfelt thanks to Mr Manager for starting it! My brother bought a copy of Trout Mask Replica back in the 70s, when we were both in our teens. I remember being quite blown away by it, and still feel the same when I listen to it now. That said, I like his earlier stuff even better in some ways - there is some wonderful stuff on Safe As Milk. Don Van Vliet was, by many accounts, a very strange and often disturbing individual. I've read accounts of how he treated his band, especially in the early years, which make him sound like a musical version of Stalin (though perhaps more of a multi-instrumentalist that Josef Vassrionovich could ever claim to be). But, tyrant or otherwise, he and his band produced a lot of truly wonderful music. Massively influential over the years, too, as Ron's mention of Polly Harvey shows. What two words would one most closely associate with a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag?

Fair point!

As, indeed, is any right-thinking person!

Thanks for that - useful to know. I hadn't thought that Fratton Park would be owned by Chainrai, but that the charge would mean he had to give consent for its sale. In the event of liquidation then, that won't be the case, and he'll just have to accept what the liquidator gets for it. Either way, I still reckon the most likely buyer of Fratton park is Tesco!

That's the bit I'm struggling to work out too! I'd have thought that the charge on Fratton Park, which is quite clear in the Land Registry entry (though apparently not clear enough for Ho's legal eagle mates on POL to spot!) would override any considerations of ownership, liquidation or no liquidation. The paragraph I quoted earlier makes it quite clear that the proprietor - any proprietor - cannot sell the ground unless they have the consent of the charge holder, which is of course Portpin. But Birch's comments to Solent state otherwise; he said quite clearly that in the event of liquidation ownership of Fratton Park would not simply revert to Chainrai. Does this mean that in a case of liquidation a charge holder simply gets whatever the liquidator can sell the asset for, and their consent is effectively given whether they like it or not? To me that doesn't ring true, but then I'd have thought that Trevor Birch would know a lot more about these things than I do.

There are, I think, two separate charges. First, Portpin issued a debenture against PFC; this made the company a secured creditor to the tune of £17M. This is also where the £17M figure comes from. Second, Portpin holds a charge over Fratton Park, which prevents any sale or disposition of the property without Portpin's say so; no specific sum is mentioned here. This is how it shows in the Land Registry entry: I think Birch is saying that in both cases, Chainrai will simply have to take what he can get in the event of liquidation. The debenture will only be worth what the liquidator can get for the club's assets - bear in mind that when a business is liquidated, there is no guarantee of secured creditors being paid in full. Fratton Park, as an asset of PFC2010, will be handled in exactly the same way. That bit does surprise me, as I'd have assumed that the Land Registry entry would be the clincher.

Why would he do this? Would the creditors gain anything from it? I suppose that if the club were able to continue as a League One outfit post liquidation, the asking price would be greater than it would be for a level eight or lower club, thus making more for the creditors. In which case you could say that the scenario you suggest is exactly what Birch should be doing - after all, his duty is to the creditors of PFC, nobody else. However, the asking price for a League One club, with no players or staff and a ground in need of serious work, isn't likely to be all that high - in effect, any buyer would be paying for the stadium and having to fork out lots more to obtain players and other staff, not to mention all the work needed on the stadium itself. Given this, I'd suggest that the potential value of Fratton Park is far greater to Tesco or whoever than the potential price of the whole shooting match as a football club, whatever the level of competition it might be in. Plus, of course, Tesco would actually have the money available to buy it - how's the Supporters Trust bucket collection coming along? So, if Birch is doing what he's supposed to be doing (and I've yet to see anything to suggest otherwise), I can't see your scenario happening at all.

Great thread. I'm 52 years old, born in Hertfordshire and brought up in Bishopstoke from the age of eight months. Didn't get into football till relatively late in life; my first game was the Texaco Cup game against Rangers in 1974, which we won 2-0 (the second was a quite beautiful own goal!). Went to a few games after that, but didn't really get hooked till a few years later - I think the 5-0 dismissal of Blackburn Rovers (at which I stood in the Archers for the only time in my life) was what did it. Not sure about my first away game, but it may have been at Anfield in the late 70s; we lost 2-0. Like quite a few, my worst memory was that FA Cup semi in 1984. My best? Probably Dellhurst Park - one hell of a day. Live in Woolston during the week and Horndean at weekends; don't get to many matches other than midweek ones at the moment.