Oisin

Ifs If the ref had had any balls he’d have sent Claus off for a clear professional foul on Henry in the first minute and we’d have lost by 6. Anyway … let’s hope we keep it vaguely respectable today, and finally draw this season to a close. We were down by early October so finally reaching an end that’s been inevitable for 8 months is a relief

While I do understand that, I can’t help but like him. In this era of football with teenagers being handed it all on a plate to them and wasting their skills because they’re multi millionaires by 22 and lacking any motivation, Vardy, while undoubtedly now a multi millionaire (with an annoying WAG) is a bit of a throwback. It wasn’t handed to him in a plate, he was let go, part-time, and ended up winning the league, FA Cup and playing for England. And all while playing for and staying loyal to an unfashionable club. He's not the most gifted and basically did it all through hard work and attitude. There’s countless more talented players than him who will never reach his level of success and even with all his success and money he’s still utterly committed in his late 30s, playing at the top level. I admire both Vardy and Van Dijk in different ways, but I know who I prefer and have more respect for as a person.

I thought we had a 1 year extension option on Dibling so he won’t be leaving next summer on a free. Added to which at his age it wouldn’t be free anyway. I don’t see Dibling leaving if I’m honest. 3 months ago I’d have expected some serious money to be offered but his form and confidence fell off a cliff. Good news for us IMHO because the talent is still there in spades. The only players I see being in demand for big (enough) money are Ramsdale and Fernandes. Downes and THB etc won’t command a fee worth us selling at. We’ll lose plenty of others for loose change I suspect but only those two for a sizeable wad.

Valid point, the tactical explaining - while excellent in the above example- is only one aspect. But so is adapting and reacting just one aspect. You’ve also got coaching players to your method, coaching and developing young players and then creating a team ethic/man-management, working under extreme pressure and being adaptable in those moments … plus a couple of others I’ll have forgotten. RM as an example built a strong team ethic and identity, and coached players into his method really well. But he was utterly unable to adapt and couldn’t handle pressure. I’d also argue he failed to improve/develop any players. His man/management was also marmite in the squad. Ralph also suffered with that, but was an excellent coach and more adaptable. He also developed some players quite considerably (JWP and KWP being obvious examples) Still looks good with the tactical analysis but as someone highlighted above so does Gary Neville and he’s failed as a manager. What we have no idea is how many of those other boxes above he can tick. All we can do is try and get an insight on what we see in clips like that and by studying what he’s done elsewhere and then hope Spors can judge it all competently. Im nervous about both Rohl and Still, more so Still if I’m honest. The clip is great, his brief cv is encouraging but let’s face it, he is a bit hipster and would be a risk. It could be a genius move or it could be another high risk failure and I don’t think SR can afford another of those. And as fans I don’t think we can stomach one either. Tough call

Fernandes aside, I agree with the sentiment to give it to no one. Nothing of this season deserves recognition or reward. But for a kid in his first season at this level, in a foreign country, in a horrific team with different managers and their different insane ideas he’s done remarkably well. Attitude in the circumstances is just as impressive as his performances have been. He deserves it. Ramsdale is the best of the rest but this kid has been a shimmering fleck of gold in a stinking pile of sewage.

Not saying your opinion is wrong, but while you’ve been banging the Cooper drum for weeks now, you do realise that in all of this time Cooper’s never been in the running, don’t you?

All very true, I remember Barca playing Mascherano at 1.74 at centre back, with Xavi (1.7) and Iniesta (1.71) in midfield and Messi (1.7) up front. Dreadful side. Best centre back this millennium? Cannavaro - tiny. Best full backs? Lahm and Roberto Carlos. Midgets Otherwise the argument stacks up well.

Every decision is made by somebody who’s been recruited at some point. Including the recruitment of the recruiters. So by that rationale you are indeed 100% correct. 🤦🏻‍♂️

I just feel like I’ve seen more than enough of him playing for us, normally not quite well enough. Careful what you wish for I guess, but I’d be happy to see him move on.

Largely agree - assuming a back 4, we’ll probably have Sanda as 5th choice, Wood 4, Stephens 3, Edwards 2 and either THB (preferred but unlikely), Jan (I’m done with him), ABK (please go) or AN Other as 1st choice. Shea Charles can also fill in as an emergency. LB we’ll have Wellington plus one of Manning, Taylor or Latinos (I think I’d prefer Taylor but think he’ll be off) RB for championship I reckon Sugawara would be fine and with Bree as cover we’d be good for this position but if the Italian rumours are true he’ll be gone and we’ll need a replacement. Shame as I think championship football would play to Suga’s attacking strengths and enable him to work on developing his defensive side; he’s just been far too exposed in a struggling side in this league. Either way I think the defence is fine for the championship without too much work. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the rest of the pitch.

Yeah, the French league is rubbish; just look at how their sides do in European competitions, especially in direct comparison with English premier league teams

Yeah, I get the feeling that this thread is a bit futile in the sense that the next manager is a done deal. I guess because of his situation at Wednesday and the financial implications of that on us we just have to be patient. But while there’s no news it does create space for a lot of noise so the speculation is to be expected. If it is Rohl as I suspect, that hopefully means Spurs can spend his time focusing on the squad overhaul. Beyond Shea Charles and Ronnie Edwards I can’t begin to guess who our starting 11 in August will be. Probably a good thing right now as I want rid of most, but it does mean there’s a lot to do.

You won’t have met Dalek, I assume

Agree with your assessment of RM but not sure you’re correct in Rohl being another philosophy manager. He does have a playing style it’s true, but so do most coaches (it’s also a style I like and I think most of us generally enjoyed under Ralph). However, Rohl is tactically flexible, having played 3 at the back, 4231 (mostly), and also 433 and 442. He seems able and prepared to flex to accommodate both what he has available and what the opposition or game situation dictates. He is absolutely not intransigent in the way both RM and IJ have been. The Wednesday fans love him and there’s a lot to like here - whether it happens and whether he’s successful if it does is clearly not guaranteed, but I’d be far more excited about him being appointed than I have been about any appointments since Ralph.

I’ve voted for Taylor as I couldn’t see any logic in signing a left back given the full back options we already had - at least for some of the others we in theory had a requirement for the position. That said I could have voted for almost any of them, and the equal spread of votes suggest many feel the same. Which kind of supports the overall assessment that this was an unmitigated fucking disaster. I mean, it couldn’t feasibly have been any worse. I hope everyone associated with this year’s recruitment has gone because they clearly have their head up their arses. I’m not a scout but five minutes told me Fraser and BBD didn’t have the legs for this league, Wood didn’t have the ability, Sugawara the defensive capabilities and almost all of the others didn’t manage the five minutes necessary to allow any opinion. Given how bad the players selected ahead of them are, these guys must be truly awful. I don’t blame the players themselves; the recruitment team and (one has to conclude RM had a say in some of these) the previous manager, however, totally fucked our already slim chances last summer. We’re the worst team ever mainly because we’ve combined the worst transfer window ever with two of the worst tactical set-ups I’ve ever seen. Sport Republic are horrific. Spors may end up being the long-dreamed of messiah but he needs to be because we need a miracle right now to sort this club out.

We haven’t seen Dibling tried at centre back yet. With IJ in charge I wouldn’t bother trying to guess what random way he chooses to set them up - just sit back and await the surprise of finding out Archer is a forward sweeper and Sully an enforcer.

Did you see that video from Stamford Bridge? And you have more time for Sully than Dibling? Wow. This whole thread seems very strange to me; lots of anger at a kid being less productive at the end of his first full season in football than at the start. Theres dozens of things to be angry about with saints this season - Diblings performance and attitude is pretty much at the bottom of the list. Not having a tactical set up to get the best out of him and Fernandes, our only 2 decent attacking footballers (despite only being kids) is far more worthy of criticism than their performances. As for attitude … the only 2 players busting a gut to get back v Chelsea? Yep, those same 2. He’s technically excellent, has a top attitude, has lots still to learn and yes, probably needs a manager to put their arm around him right now. I know that last fact will cause derision in some fans, especially given how much footballers earn, but it’s still true and he’s still just a kid. If we nurture him there is a 100 million player in there. Slag him off, undermine his confidence and pick on him versus 20+ other useless losers in the squad more worthy of your ire and he’ll continue to underperform, leave for nothing, and become someone else’s 100 million player.

He picked Bree and Aribo at centre back when there were other options available. And after that experiment proved to be a disaster he did exactly the same in the next game. With the same result. (Other examples of his coaching insanity can be provided if required) We were better last night … I still don’t want him anywhere near the club next season.

Apart from Sulemana who doesn’t deserve to wear the shirt, I’d say it’s probably our best possible lineup right now. Which speaks volumes because it’s pretty crap.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz6dwwzn7vdo I doubt he’s off to Spurs

Also, there’s no way spurs are spending a combined £80m on a couple of kids. Both stories are just typical Spurs rumours designed to appease the fans by showing willing; I very much doubt there will be an end product for Spurs here

Sorry, who?

I do understand and largely sympathise with the sentiment but as others have said, playing only kids would be feeding them to lions - grossly unfair on those who’ve done nothing wrong and probably very damaging to their development. Im actually inclined to go the other way and force the senior pros and wantaways to play every second of this shit show in abject misery. We’re having to endure it, so should they

I wonder if he’s being uncharacteristically forthright because he knows we have someone lined up for next season? Easier to be vocal when you know any upset will only last 2 months maximum.

You paint this in a very binary way; just because Juric is terrible doesn’t mean that RM wasn’t and didn’t need removing. Or that Juric should stay. Yes the squad is easily one of (probably the) worst in the league, so relegation irrespective of tactics was probable. But, as Luton demonstrated (and dozens of lower league side in FA Cup history) there is a way to be competitive when you have inferior players. We've had one guy obsessed with passing it endlessly a few yards from our own goal, risky when you’re the better footballing team, utterly mental when you’re not. We kept on losing the ball as predicted and surrendered multiple chances every game. Which at this level we’re ruthlessly converted. RM refused to acknowledge or change. He had to go. Juric is equally obsessed and wedded to a suicidal tactic, albeit a different type. 3 defenders, but man marking so despite the numbers there’s no defensive shape and at times a huge gaping fucking hole in the middle of the defence. Meanwhile the formation doesn’t allow room for your most threatening players playing in their best positions (Fernandes and Dibling) and when you try and shoe horn them in can only do so by not playing a striker at all. Its mental. There are alternatives that would have been better and would still be better. No tactics would change this team from likely relegation to championship challengers but we could have been competitive and not going down as the worst team ever. Playing a back 4, three central midfielders (one being Fernandes getting forward), 2 threatening wide players and a central striker would provide shape, numbers in midfield and a threat. We’d lose more than we’d win, we’d go down, but we’d at least make a game of it. Just because neither of the previous two managers have been able to adopt this simple strategy (except Juric last week when we played better - go figure) doesn’t mean there is no one alive who could. Half the stadium can see this and would manage us better right now, let alone a reserve coach. Literally every single game is pointless right now. We could concede every remaining game 3-0 as it stands right now and probably finish on the same points and better goal difference than if we continue under Juric. The squad isn’t good enough, the recruitment horrific, we’ve not managed to replace Ings in 4+ years or Fonte in over 5. And our bosses seem incapable of identifying anyone other than a lunatic or bonkers formation-obsessed intransigent knobhead as a manager. So yes, relegation was always likely. But this doesn’t absolve Juric of responsibility for being a bonkers formation-obsessed intransigent knobhead. He has to go.