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Let's hope the members of the IS are the nice ones we armed, trained and William Hague wanted us to fight beside, not the nasty ones that are in the news.

Nowt to do with all the money and what the market will bear, then?

Saw this linked on Facebook. Tidy little site for the Yes position. http://theweebluebook.com/index.php The Wee Blue Book.

Yup. 1977. Any later examples than that, forum?

Good interview. Small sense of Bertrand rewiring his mind to fit the present reality, but that's natural. Glad to have him on board. Have we ever had a CL winner in the team before?

Article about it here:- http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/28/luke-shaw-england-concerns-roy-hodgson-manchester-united Seems a bit weird; Hodgson never said anything at the time. Everyone's treating Luke as if he's Randy from the Trailer Park Boys.

Verbal's post is too long to address point by point, and there's much I wouldn't be in a position, or have the inclination to dispute in any case. The detail on Mirpur/Kashmir is diverting, but does it add anything more to our understanding than "validation within an in-group"? I'm not sure. btw, cheers for the nice words, Gemmel. Not great at taking praise, so ta.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on anything, but at the same time, not going to justify anything beyond what has already been written. There's no need. If you think the opinion of a 2nd generation product of Pakistani immigration isn't relevant on a thread that involves Pakistanis, that's your lookout. Personally, as someone that has seen both cultures, seen my grandad basically do the complete opposite of what is frequently charged (they don't integrate), I think that's a worthwhile perspective. Not a unique one; I've got a fúckload of cousins after all - but uncommon. And while I'm at it, you're right. I'm not a wide boy gangster and have never claimed to be. I remember being briefly mocked on here for indicating that I knew few characters from the Liverpool underworld, the implication being that I have criminal connections elsewhere. I do, it's a pain in the arse, and frankly, it's one of the biggest reasons I moved to Liverpool. Needed to be by own man, and not have professional aspirations f**ked up by association with people close to me, in trouble with the law. I'll say no more, and to be perfectly honest, it's a shítload more of an explanation than I need to give or indeed, you deserve. Well done for working out the nerd part. That must have taken painstaking research.

It's not in your DNA. If you'd been born in the US instead and raised there, you'd be as apple pie as the rest of them. Besides, as a frequent visitor to the 'States myself, while you can remain English in outlook and voice, you've no choice but to assimilate. What are we going to do? Walk everywhere? Only hang out with other Brits? Whenever I'm over there, I hang around with Americans, observe their festivals, laws and customs. I drink cold ale. Same thing in Spain; within a few days, working to a Spanish timetable, sleeping in the afternoon, running away from bulls and not being particularly arsed about being on time for social events, ever. I was still English in those places, but was in no way living an English cultural lifestyle.

I like much of this post. Only point of difference is the being proud part. That's the ideal, but it's not always possible, even for those born here.

And I'm done. Not a bad ending, although the last couple of boss fights were disappointingly easy.

Luke Wright's take for Better Together. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2014/aug/27/spoken-words-luke-wright-video#start-of-comments

There are pockets of wealth all over the country. Edinburgh's got a rep for being the classiest place in Scotland, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a number of bigwigs have set up shop there. Average house price there is 225K. 400K for London. The difference is huge.

Yeah, I saw that too. We've got both the richest inhabitants in Europe, but also the poorest. London has just run away with stuff, and I'm really not sure that more London is the answer. We'll spend billions on HS2, but there are places up North which have got terrible connections for the distance. Shortest trip between Manchester and Sheffield is about an hour. That's just over 30 miles. Let London continue to do its financial and biggest city thing, but if we manage to keep our current territorial integrity, serious consideration should be given to moving the capital north. Manchester would be a good shout.

The whole country is London-centric, as the political will behind projects like HS2 should illustrate. Whether the rest of country has anything to learn from a prosperous city state with a higher population than all of Ireland is a matter for some debate.

That's the shot from the Guardian's site. They're not keen

Europe continues to be as divisive as ever amongst Tories. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/28/douglas-carswell-ukip-defects-tory-mp-byelection Douglas Carswell has quit the party, resigned his seat and will fight for it as a UKIP candidate in the upcoming by-election. Will UKIP get its first Westminster MP elected?

More fuel for the "we want 'em gone!" conspiracy theory, bletch? Note: this video has been subtitled by Nationalist wags

Nah, my comment was an attempt to determine whether it was the same thing in your eyes. I'd still like an answer to that. Not my personal experience. Great grandfather was a judge and the first Muslim mayor of Karachi. There are streets and schools are named for him in the city. Not sure you could find a better example of integration than my own grandad, but then he doesn't really hang around with other Pakistanis much. That said, I recognise what you're saying - but would still say that this is more about ignorance and mutual validation within a social in-group, much as it is in other sex rings.

Yeah, for starters. I mean, if you're going to petition for no more immigration from Pakistan, why stop there? I'm a quarter Pakistani. I could send a limb back or something. Not quite sure what it'd do there.

First of all, fair play for putting some meat on the bones of your viewpoint. However, I'm not sure that increased racial profiling is the answer. According to a lot of my mates, we do rather enough of that already. I don't think we have any real problem with coppers being afraid of minorities; if anything, it's quite the opposite. The Rotheram failures occurred at management level. In the continued spirit of honesty, would you send them all back if you had the chance? We can start with Pakistanis if that's too broad a question.

What is your appraisal of the situation and your proposed solution? While these links may inform the debate, I'd like to hear your take, plainly stated.

It's admirable that you're trying to grasp such complex topics, Charlie - but don't you think you'd be better off getting a handle on the basics first? Just a few posts ago, you were adamant that Egypt didn't recognise Hamas, yet today, a long term ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been brokered by Egypt. You beg the forum to accept your credentials of real study, yet fail to get the basics right? Difficult to reconcile, especially when it's compounded with shifting positions and a lack of source material. Those are valid criticisms, as is the charge that Israeli children are being taught that the world hates them, documented in Yoav Shamir's Defamation. Here it is again, in case anyone missed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liJ2v19o46A

Depressingly, I think the long term prognosis might be the same. However, if there was ever a subject I wanted to be proved wrong on, this is it. I'd expect more of the same in a couple of years, if not sooner. Like most of these major incidents, it probably won't be started by rocket attack. Tunnel-hunting in 2008, teenagers this time. The myth doesn't quite fit the reality. Good to see Chapel End Charlie sourcing stuff, and finally twigging that Hamas isn't Palestine. Told you there was gold in them Internet hills, Charlie - but it's certainly not new to me, or this thread. Equation, especially the Palestinian = Hamas = Terrorist mantra, was part of this thread's early life, used to justify the targeted murder of kids, as I recall. I've got no problems with the Professor's statements; he has every right to editorialise the opinions of the Palestinians he has met. I wonder whether many would agree with his digest though.

Not with any currency of note.