pap

Best season ticket ever. Ten year waiting list for normal people, and they don't get the backstage access.

Not that mysterious. Balkanise the Middle East by breaking states up into smaller, easier to control entities with Western pals in charge. Previously, I'd always thought Iran might be part of the endgame, but the recent thawing of relations with the US has caused me to reconsider that assessment. I don't take anything he says seriously. The man is a walking contradiction. Responsible for one of the bloodiest conflicts since the Second World War, inexplicably UN Envoy for peace in the Middle East. A complete and utter liar. This is where it all gets a bit far right for me, especially as I remember you referring to an entire ethnicity as "vermin". We may agree on the true goals of multiculturalism. Don't assume we've got the same outcomes in mind. If the purpose of multiculturalism is to divide us and rob us of collective bargaining power, then I'd suggest that the solution is for people to start talking and working together to identify and realise common goals. The last thing we need is a load of loser fúcking fascists going around mob-handed, coshing anyone with a tan.

The Israelis don't constrain their retaliations to the point of origin of the attack, more as an excuse to go after infrastructure and human lives.

US-Israel relations have been a little frostier of late. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-accuses-israel-targeting-kin-murdered-palestinian-teen-023421588.html#iGeSeA8

I can see Israel's need to respond, but the nature of the response is disgusting, disproportionate and indicative of the overall direction of travel. Israel would like the Palestinians gone, is committing war crimes in furtherance of that objective, but would like the world to think that it is a moderate, civilized country regardless. Big ask. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israels-propaganda-machine-is-finally-starting-to-misfire-9636417.html Charlie would be in full agreement with Netanyahu, presumably.

There are no entry requirements for being a football fan. Remember seeing some 45 yr old matey off his face up North fronting the hardest 13 year olds Oldham had to offer. Exceptions.

Probs worth qualifying that the Daily Mail is the UK's least accurate newspaper. However, the volume of evidence would suggest they are bang to rights.

I hear you're a racist now, Malky. How did you get into that sort of thing? Wow.

Guess those talks with the US really are going well. Encouraging.

Ooh, that'd be a shame, considering we've got a reformer in charge of Iran. These opportunities for reconciliation with Iran have a habit of eluding us, unfortunately. Fkn shame, because Iran has a young, surprisingly moderate population. They'd get along with the West just fine if we stopped calling them evil.

Pre-emptive war results in the unlikeliest of bedfellows. Iran has been ploughing aid into Iraq for years now. Pretty amazing considering their people were sucking down Iraqi deployed chemical weapons 30 years ago.

Eh? The Area? Northam? St Marys? Flower Roads? Mandela Way? Shirlski? Portswood?

Israel defending itself. Mild examples. Google "Gaza", switch to the Images tab and then tell me this is defence.

Brownhio. Proper sh!thole.

Britain has worked with Islamic groups of various stripes since the days of Empire. The links were even more important to maintain after WW2 and the loss of Empire, as these groups were often the only means by which Britain could perform certain objectives; quelling communist of Arab nationalist revolutions, propping up preferred puppets, espionage, proxy wars, etc. Such groups are very handy to a fading imperial power that still wants to assert influence in a specific region. Our tolerance of Londonistan was an outrage to other nations, most of the stories on the news are reporting heinous atrocities carried out by Islamic extremists, yet using those groups to exercise our policy is a practice that we continue to this day. Can we rid ourselves of the notion that it was somehow the principles of "lefty tolerance" that brought the rise in Islamic fundamentalism to the UK?

Under international law, an occupied people has the right to resist its occupier. Were the French Resistance terrorists?

Which really applies to hypo's assessment of Iraq. He only agrees with me because he has extra information through personal connections to the region, illustrating the importance of detail. Trying to assess the situation through the echo chamber of the Western media is a fruitless exercise.

Sad news. There'll be a two year lag on most computer game discussions we'll ever have

That accusation was defunct before you posted. Polaroid has already ceded ground on this thread, and provided some context to the discussion. I have been encouraged by your recent assessment of events in Iraq, hypo. I'd like to see more of that kind of insight.

Interesting timeframe, because it contains the 1979 revolution of Iran. It hasn't really been discussed on this thread, but it looms huge in the Saudi picture. Most don't remember now, but it wasn't just an overthrow of the government. The new regime was calling for an Islamic Revolution across the entire region, lambasting states like Saudi Arabia that had followed the US model of capitalism. If Saddam hadn't been coerced into starting the Iran-Iraq war, they may have gotten a little further along in regional revolution. As it turns out, Saudi Arabia ploughed funds into extremist groups, almost certainly to prove its revolutionary credentials and silence internal dissent, and still funds them to this day. We know this, the Yanks know this. Perhaps I'm being overly simplistic, but wouldn't a reasonable position be to put pressure on the Saudis to stop their funding? If the likes of the Taleban, Al Qaeda, ISIS et al are causing us so much bother, why not just cut 'em off at source? Oil would be an immediate, but incomplete answer. The truth is that it serves Western hawk purposes; every Muslim extremist is justification for the continuance of the war economy. The consequences of war create more extremists. Saudi funding is a vicious circle, with some astonishingly beneficial side-effects for the military industrial complex and the Saudi leaders. They get to say "don't listen to Iran! We ARE serious about Islam". We get an unending series of justifications for draconian laws here, and imperial adventures overseas. If the plan didn't cost so damn much, I'd almost admire it.

Well, if we're talking live albums, then "If You Want Blood" by AC/DC has to be right up there. The seven minute, teasing version of Bad Boy Boogie, is thunderingly good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPX4BU0_1w0 Top challenge : Play in car, then vainly attempt to keep your motor under the speed limit just after the 5 minute mark.

As long as we have people stupid enough to be worked into a frenzy over isolated events, we're never really going to suss it out.

Good to see you come around, Jamie. What was it like working on behalf of other foreign powers?

You mean, the Londonistan period? http://www.meforum.org/994/londonistan-radical-islam-and-the-disintegration

Funny. Don't remember Islamic extremism being a particularly big concern before 9/11, despite having a sizeable Muslim population present in the UK for 40 years.