pap

I'm not sure what I'm more amazed at; Phil's statement or your "technical" defence of shurlock.

FWIW, I think Labour is out of touch with its Northern voters; I doubt you'll see a better example of this than Gillian Duffy. Brown called her a bigoted woman, but I've seen a lot of Labour voters make the same noises about their concerns on immigration. As a party member, I find the practice of parachuting preferred candidates in to be a betrayal of local talent and hard work.

Forgive the terse response; I don't want to bore people any more than they have been. 1) Comparisons between the behaviour of the present Israeli administration and the Nazi regime are not new, often repeated and certainly not the exclusive brainchild of myself and George Galloway. 2) Appreciate the updated Chapel End Charlie definition on genocide. Am presently in the process of mailing historians of note, informing them that the attempted or successful destruction of an ethnic group is no longer enough; gas chambers are now the clincher. They'll have a lot of genocides to reclassify. 3) Finally, I reckon it's always a mistake to try and speak on behalf of the board. Not only is it presumptous to the point of rudeness, but it also betrays a lack of confidence in your own points. Reputation attacks are fine as long as your own is defensible.

In King Alfred enjoying a beer.

It's a fair enough statement if qualified, sadoldgit. Why do you disagree with the comparisons though? Chomsky reckons calling the situation in Israel apartheid, as understood by the situation in South Africa, is a let-off for Israelis. He thinks it is far worse. South Africans have been amongst Gaza's strongest supporters on the streets. Desmond Tutu, who spoke at the recent rally, wouldn't characterise that assessment as unfair. The Warsaw ghetto / Gaza comparison rings true enough for me. One ethnicity, hemmed in and unable to leave, suffering collective punishment when trying to escape their situation. To re-iterate; Hamas action is legal under international law, Israel's is not. In a world where innocents are hard to come by, how about going with international law?

Huge agreement with this; my SDLP landlady reckons that prosperity kept the spirit of the GFA going. We take all this stuff for granted, but the increased opportunities over there for all have helped to transform the place. Oddly enough, the Unionists have come off worse in the short-term. In the bad old days, nepotism was rife within the Unionist community. If your dad worked in the ship factory, you worked in the ship factory. This led to a lot of people not bothering too much with education, hurting them now in the more egalitarian employment market. It'd be very interesting to see what the Palestinians could build given a lasting agreement of peace and the infrastructure projects (seaport, airport) to do it.

Going to pick bro up, drive back to my old dears, then taxi to St. Mary's for footy and beers!

If there is any lack of certainty, perhaps it's a background knowledge thing. http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/emergency-reports/gaza-situation-report-27 Perhaps the parents are wondering if their son would be alive if any of the peace initiatives offered recently, or over the years, would have made their son more secure than the present plan of "mowing the lawn" and eventual genocide. Israel doesn't want peace. When Hamas was outside of the Palestinian unity government, the negotiating Palestinians gave up far more than was required than under international law, agreeing to cede settlements and give up a Palestinian right of return. Israel walked away from that, just as they are making the current Egyptian-led efforts irreconcilable by flat out disagreement or alternatively, agreeing to a point in principle and then attaching so many of their own conditions as to make it meaningless. This opinion piece from the Jerusalem Post is at least honest about the fate of Gaza. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862 I don't have all the answers, but I think the solution here is US pressure; Washington is in a unique position of influence and there are reasons to suggest that it might wield it. The Obama administration was furious over the UN shelter bombing. No-one has all the answers. I find research helps, tho.

I think sir has successfully determined the merit of their contribution.

The Israelis treat Palestinian kids as "all the same". I'm not saying all Israeli kids are the same, but I am saying that the Israeli education system cultivates a sense of fear, of impending destruction and that gentiles can't be trusted. It's an even weirder accusation when many of my sources, including the film in question, are by people born in Israel. If sir has anything beyond bungling attempt character assassination and vague, unverifiable accounts of meetings with Israeli children, or the broad and unyielding apologism for a regime that deliberately targets Palestinian children for murder, let us know.

I for one, am very glad that Malky has made his statement and assured us that he is not any of the career destroying things his private communications might have otherwise suggested.

Certain Israeli voices are some of the most critical toward Israel, and provide some of the most interesting perspectives, Yoav Shamir and Gilad Atzmon are two I have already mentioned. Predictably, both have caught flak and the AS tag from the lobby. Atzmon is routinely protested; those protesting him haven't even read his work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M5V_aqAck0 One of the comments on that YouTube video describes the students as useful idiots, a fair assessment. Atzmon's stuff is described as anti-semitic, but it's really not what I took from it. It describes the problems of a nation of immigrants with different cultural perspectives and different interpretations of Jewish identity. His main claims are that in the absence of cultural or religious unity, fear of annihilation, something he terms as pre-traumatic stress disorder, was one of the few unifying factors in this nascent people. Yoav Shamir's film shows how this fear is deliberately cultivated; taught in schools. The benefit of Israeli criticism is the context it provides. I wonder how much more of it there would be if people were not ex-communicated and defamed when they spoke out.

An interesting one. Excellent in 2011-12. Signs lucrative contract in 2012-13 after which consistent form never recovers. If it's a case of resting on his laurels, I'd take him. That's easily fixable if he has any self-respect, and the fella does have some spectacular goals in him.

Think Long will end up justifying the price tag, although I'm not sure he's going to be an out and out goal machine. I do expect him to be a positive attacking influence, and look forward to seeing a more settled performance. The "striker scores against old team" rule has to apply, doesn't it? Get him on tomorrow.

Basic comprehension betrays you. That'd be my description of events from a documentary, linked on this thread. People can view it for themselves and decide whether the first-hand statements of Israeli children are any more reliable than the evidence you've presented in your rebuttal.

Cheers Tokes. Very much the look I go for. These clowns are only complaining because I'm prettier than most girls they've bonked. Cue the Rottweiler with accusations of narcissism.

How about signing up to the ten year truce that Hamas offered before any of this happened? It was based on ten reasonable conditions, many of which are the recurring subject of discussions now. Instead, they tell them that Israel is their land and that the Palestinians are terrorists. Every Israeli citizen. Everyone else, particularly the Palestinians, are up for negotiation. Actually, it was later determined that those murders were not ordered by Hamas leadership. Israel grudgingly admitted that they think it was a rogue cell. Even if the Hamas leadership had ordered the murders, it still doesn't justify the doctrine of collective punishment. It is exactly the same principle the Nazis used; kill one of ours, and we'll kill scores of yours. Israel is incredibly paranoid. If you want an insight into just how paranoid, I thoroughly recommend you watch Defamation. Their kids emerge from school believing the whole world hates them. Part of the documentary covers a school trip to Auschwitz. While on the trip, the Israeli kids approach three Polish geezers sitting on a bench and address them in Hebrew. The Polish chaps pull a confused face and mutter something in Polish, at which point the Israeli schoolkids immediately think that these guys are anti-semitic and want to do them harm. Both sides of the conversation are subtitled, so it's clear that the Polish blokes say nothing of the sort. The kids are brainwashed to the point where they are terrified by anyone outside their group. With that context, it isn't difficult to see why hardliners keep finding power in Israel, or why Moshe Feiglin has enjoyed support for his disgusting views and a place in the Knesset. Historically, I can't argue with your position. The various pan-Arab efforts against Israel prove your point. Israel enjoyed massive support amongst the West and the left until they started messing with Lebanon in the eighties. In just 30 years, their reputation is in the mud, and the only reason that they still enjoy undeserved support here is because of the very powerful lobbying movement, and clear bias from the BBC. I listened to the entirety of PM this afternoon. They mentioned the killing of 19 Israeli informers in Gaza, twice. They mentioned the death of a four year old Israeli child killed by mortar at least four times. Not a mention of Palestinian casualties. Pure propaganda, and the BBC used to be a champion for the Palestinian cause. Like yourself, I've often considered the stupidity of the Hamas attacks. Why do the one thing that you know will get your people killed? I think in many cases, an element of Mossad infiltration is in play. That'd certainly segue with the reports of informers being killed today. What else do Israeli assets get up to in Gaza? Israel as constituted is an illegal state. They have settled land allocated to the Palestinians by UN agreement to the extent where a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders would be almost impossible to create. That has been the plan all along; make the Palestinian problem smaller and smaller until it goes away. Hamas have the legal right to resist their occupier, which Israel is based on international law and the 1967 borders. The tide of criticism toward Israel's disproportionate actions is growing. Biggest ever Gaza demo here in the UK, and that is despite the media echo chamber (not you, Channel4 News). Hopefully, there will be enough pressure to change minds, perhaps get that ten year ceasefire. But when Israeli kids are raised in fear and taught that gentiles hate them, will hurt them, and just don't understand their situation anyway, will Israeli ears hark what gentiles have to say?

Gutted you don't fancy me, boys. Maybe you'll be more to each others' taste. The Whitey G / bTripz Old/Young Bum Fun date. Guarantee it'll get higher ratings than BAP.

The only people who've ever had a pop at my appearance before are 50-something tubby gingers. I'm safe

Got nominated for this fecking ice bucket challenge. Turns out the only challenge were the missus' digits and poor camera skills.

Most of those rockets are completely ineffective, and are the biggest present that Hamas could give to Israel's objectives, which is to ethnic cleanse and depopulate their land of Palestinians. I know you like to be a contrary chap, Alps. Would you disagree with that assessment?

The latest series of massacres in Israel's program of ethnic cleansing and eventual land clearance. I'm trying to work out what you are, Charlie. The long term, and preferred theory, is that you're a relatively harmless Middle Englander that has perhaps let too much "collective achievement" define you as a person. There is plenty of evidence for this; your opinions are unfailingly pro-British. Your reviews of historical shows over on the TV thread give an impression of man that not only believed, but lapped up whatever it is your brain has just processed, normally wistful remembrances of our Empire or WW2 days. You take pride in achievements that are not your own, to the extent where you can't handle any conflict with your interpretation of events, because it plays havoc with the composite system of self-worth you've developed. If the idea that your government or its allies are incapable of performing evil acts, then I'd give up the history and start on Power Rangers. Of course, this is just a theory which I'm floating to you for confirmation. If I'm wrong, we can discuss alternatives.

North West. Obviously not a professor of geography I think you can safely term Liverpool as an upgrade for him.

Hamas is ISIS. ISIS is Hamas. http://touch.humanevents.com/humanevents/#!/entry/netanyahu-hamas-is-isis-isis-is-hamas,53f6026a025312186c406b2b Way to equate raping barbarians with the representatives of the people you're cleansing.

This campaign looks like it has been designed to make Gaza unlivable. So much infrastructure targeted; schools, hospitals, water supplies - the power station. Many of the reported wounded may die because of lack of facilities further down the line, perhaps dwarfing the direct casualties of this conflict over the long term. You are both right; Israel does what it can get away with, and on this particular occasion, it has been very lucky that there have been other events that have overshadowed their war crimes, otherwise I am sure the critical voices would ring even louder. It has barred Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch from entering Gaza. http://rt.com/news/181184-israel-hrw-amnesty-barred/ It has also sought US help in avoiding war crimes charges in the ICC. http://nypost.com/2014/08/06/netanyahu-asks-us-to-help-israel-avoid-war-crime-charges/ The Israelis are attempting to avoid scrutiny, rewrite the letter of the law, while totally violating its spirit.