pap

Oh, so all you need to make it on your own is someone else to double your income? Right....

Family, stability, community - these are not things Jeff seeks. All hail money, Jeff's god.

I have to say, I do find the old "move somewhere cheaper" or "somewhere you can afford" line a bit amusing given the massive rise in people going to food banks.

Could have moved. Shack might be off the smack. When ms pap used to work in the Kenny home and bargain, they'd get updates of all the local wrong'uns. Some reasonably famous names would occassionally turn up.

Not if you've only got £400 left to pay for everything else.

Shack. They release an album every few years, bugger off on the heroin for a few years and then re-emerge again. Kensington lads.

More stuff from Liverpool, Jeff? Picky is damn right. I've lived in some utter sh!tholes and have no desire to repeat the experience. Litherland/Bootle was the worst, which takes option 3 off the table. I've just moved from near option 1, which is one of the most transient areas in the city with a huge heroin problem. Don't suppose you've ever seen people queuing up for methadone on a Monday morning, or someone jacking up in the street. You could, if you moved there. I think the real issue is that you've never seen real life, matey.

I think we started this chain of events when we suggested that having 17,000 in the bank doesn't make you a millionaire.

Sorry. Got the impression you were speaking for everybody.

The other thing Unbelievable Jeff forgets is that many of the "extenuating circumstances" are created by the market in the first place. Anyone with a missus and kids can "earn" more money by not living in the same house.

Your assumption is incorrect. Decent 3 bedroom places range from £600-£800, which is still a sh!tload cheaper than Southampton. My sister's place is half the size of mine and £300 pcm more expensive. She needs to live there because she needs a support network. Taking your logic to the extremes (and trust me, London councils already have) my sister would need to move to somewhere much cheaper than the south to survive. Where are the £260 pcm places down south, Jeff? I'm getting the feeling that you feel people should live in sh!tholes so you feel better in your 400k pile

I like Keane. He's Irish, as opposed to "Irish".

The house you referenced is by where ms pap grew up. Many of houses in those streets are boarded up or occupied by students or asylum seekers. Many of the streets on that estate are "unadopted", meaning the council has no legal obligation to do anything with them. The street you reference is ok, but the area around it isn't great, especially Garrick Street and Webster Avenue. Drove through there a year ago to see kids walking about without appropriate clothing, furniture strewn over the streets. Not a nice place to live, and I doubt that the property is actually 3 bedroom. Not everyone has the option to move away from Chiswick, mate. If you had any kind of responsibility there (eg. carer, etc) or relied on any kind of support network, wouldn't have been such an easy decision. Besides, I fundamentally disagree with you having to move away from your home area anyway. The phenomenon is not unusual; lots of kids end up moving away from their families for financial reasons. Many are growing up in houses that they'll never be able to afford themselves.

AP: What was adolescence like? LMoG: Like childhood, but with more pubic hair http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Knowing+Me+Knowing+You+Radio+Series+1/6693937

Move to Bootle or Litherland. Then you'll perhaps understand regional relativism. Better than that, how about bits of London?

Lord Morgan of Glossop is my fave, Bear.

Where we do agree is that the taxpayer shouldn't pick up the tab for working people. Where we fail to agree is the cost of housing in the first place. Your solution is for everyone who can't afford nice places to live in over-priced slum accommodation. My solution involves making the cost of all property slightly more liveable, with the financial sector making the sacrifice. The difference between our two viewpoints? You believe in maintaining the financial system as is. I think we need to reform it to better suit the needs of the country. As I said before, a home is not a luxury, and in my opinion, a safe home isn't either.

I reckon the public interest could make a liar of you here, CB Saint.

Minimum wage will net you about a grand take-home each month. That's just about livable if you live in a £75 a week bedsit, leaving around £700 pcm to spend on everything else. Most self-contained dwellings are north of £500 pcm. So yep, if you're single and have no problem living in a bedsit forever, then you can survive without government help. Beyond that, you're a bit f**ked and the government help kicks in.

Football fans are fickle. Just saying.

Out on the streets without government help.

With slightly less respect, have you ever heard of unfair arrest?

Hang on a moment, chaps. Respect you both as posters, but where exactly are you getting the impression that people are so accepting of mass immigration?

I had high hopes for you. I feel this is a setback of two, maybe three years. Let's have a review in '16. I'll call you, yeah?

Oh aye, and he got his props with the slippery eel reference (and in this post here). At the same time, we've a bit of work to do before he gets his promised apology