trousers

It's almost as if there are several factors that determine outcomes; the players and manager to name but two....

I'm inclined to agree, but do you think any of our post-Ralph managers would have got that 2020/21 squad anywhere near the top of the premier league...? (Yes, I know I was (am) prone to blowing smoke up Ralph's arse, but even he ran out of steam/ideas in the end and had to go)

If it's possible to get a fairly ordinary bunch of players to the top of the premier league (line-up when that happened below) surely there's a manager out there that could've got more than 9 points from 24 games out the current bunch of mediocre players...?

This. No-one has ever claimed the players are anything but sub-standard (for the PL). Doesn't mean the manager(s) can't be crap too. It's not mutually exclusive (as certain posters would like you to believe...)

House!

Still too soon to judge, but yet to be convinced he's the answer...

Yep... It's got 0-0 written all over it...

I've always said we should have more self-deprecation here on the Saintsweb. Bravo sir for taking the plunge!

You're in luck.... Precisely zero people have been kidding themselves that...

I'm hearing Armstrong to WBA, but don't quote me on it

Trousers level sleuthing right there....

I have been assuming the only reason that someone of Martin's calibre hasn't yet accepted any of the plethora of offers he's no doubt had for his services, is that he's holding out for the ultimate job...

There's always a risk in trusting something 100%. Always better to maintain a healthy / pragmatic level of scepticism and/or doubt IMO....

Fair enough. I'll keep my head-scratching to myself next time...

Fair point, but it's still reasonable to ponder how someone can go from being a key player in pre-season one minute to disappearing off the face of the earth the next. I'm sure for every Licka or SAA there's been plenty of players that have excelled in pre-season and then gone on to have an equally decent season thereafter. It's not an unreasonable expectation.

SAA's lack of progress the last couple of seasons is a bit of a head-scratcher, although somewhat unsurprising given the club doesn't tend to keep fans in the loop on young player development progress these days. (Nor are our local journos seemingly too keen on finding out...) If I remember correctly, SAA had a really good pre-season last summer, playing in most games and getting good write-ups. And then he disappeared, almost without trace. Hey ho... We stumble on...

I'm inclined to agree although, as one or two others have pointed out recently, there's going to be an 'elephant in the room' next season for all those players who are "great in the Championship but not good enough for the Premier League". That is, the likes of Downes and Adam Armstrong had a significant incentive to perform out of their skin last season: they had the 'prize' of playing in the Premier League the following season. However, next season, that prize won't exist as it's now clear they would need to be jettisoned if/when we get promoted. As such, there's a fair chance they won't have the heightened levels of motivation they had last season... (Yeah, I know.... they're professional footballers and will naturally want to play their best regardless of the circumstances, but a lot of the game is played in the mind and these guys are only human...)

It's almost as if playing football isn't rocket science after all...

Whilst bearing in mind we should all be "moving on", Dark Munster's description of Martin perhaps needs a bit of qualification... Martin was indeed a "dog shit" manager this season, in that he persisted with an approach that was doomed to failure with the quality of players that we had, alongside the quality of the opposition. Conversely, he could be considered a "decent" manager last season because his tactics largely worked against inferior opposition in the Championship. (Although, we often weren't convincing against the better sides in the league... A sign of what was to come this season...) In other words, being "dog shit" and "decent" aren't mutually exclusive descriptions of someone, when taking different circumstances and context into account. The bottom line is that Martin was "dog shit" this season and therefore had to go. It remains to be seen where Juric ends up on the "dog shit" scale, but signs are that he's getting more out of certain players in the PL than Martin was able to....

Agree. Some even backed Martin's decision not to play him at all....

It's almost as if ditching Martin and trying someone else was worth talking a punt.... P.s. we're not allowed to mention Martin anymore, so we should both "move on"...

Boooooom!!!

Even the Ipswich stewards are happy....

Juric... tactical genius!!!